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Burks as horrible on defense as Foye

franklin said:
This is the same old argument as PER listing Jefferson top ten. One or two might sneak through the cracks in the top ten, but after that it doesn't miss many and becomes more reliable. It's not like anyone is saying Durant, LBJ, Kobe, CP3, Anthony, Duncan, Lopez, Wade, or Westbrook sucks because Jefferson is also listed. These stats are pretty reliable when it comes down to the bottom of the pile.

Burks has the same DRtg as Foye but a 16 point deficit in ORtg. Corbin is justified in his bench Burks no brainer.

Outside all that, it looks more like a sophomore slump to me. Burks has regressed in several categories. That comes with the comfortable in your skin territory.
Click to expand...
Not arguing against, but man you didn't even link Foye's stats. So I looked them up , and looked up the top ten to gain perspective on how bad things are. To your poiint the top Drtg player for the league has always been a renowned defender.

I also take it with a grain of salt. Drtg is a for a player is basically defensive +/-. It can show trends, or a player can be hammered by his teammates. Ortg on the other hand is specific to the individual.

The sad fact is that Boozer is not bad enough to pull down the Bulls D this year, who knows, maybe he even learned something. Lunatic also makes a good point that Boozer is helped by a good defensive team. Interestingly, if you hadicap him the difference between the Jazz & Bulls overall (~5.5 pts), only Favors, Evans and Jefferson have a better rating.

If somebody has synergy, I would love to see some of their defensive stats on Burks and Foye to see if there is additional insight.

While we are looking at the Drtg, look at the entire team, worst to best:
  1. Mo
  2. Hayward/Foye
  3. Burks/Marvin
  4. Pearl
  5. Tinsley
  6. Kanter
  7. Murphy/Carroll
  8. Sap
  9. Jefferson/Evans
  10. Favors
So we should also discuss that Marvin and Hayward are also as bad a as Foye.

What does this mean? For me, it means that the Drtg is a bit all over the board for the Jazz. The range is 101-111. Starters and reserves end up on both ends of the list, and they don't correlate with many opinions that are common:
Hayward and Marvin are usually thought of as good defenders, AL as bad (at least pick 'n' roll). I would also expect Mo to be the best of the pgs.

I am open to hear that there is a relevant patten to the above list. I just don't see it right off the bat. The only thing that jumps out is that the team is #21 in the leaugue, no bueno.
 
Whoa Hayward is 2nd worst on the team?
/thread

Whoa Jefferson is 9th best on the team?
/thread

Whoa Mo Williams is worse than Tinsley?
/thread
 
vegas said:
Not arguing against, but man you didn't even link Foye's stats. So I looked them up , and looked up the top ten to gain perspective on how bad things are. To your poiint the top Drtg player for the league has always been a renowned defender.

I also take it with a grain of salt. Drtg is a for a player is basically defensive +/-. It can show trends, or a player can be hammered by his teammates. Ortg on the other hand is specific to the individual.

The sad fact is that Boozer is not bad enough to pull down the Bulls D this year, who knows, maybe he even learned something. Lunatic also makes a good point that Boozer is helped by a good defensive team. Interestingly, if you hadicap him the difference between the Jazz & Bulls overall (~5.5 pts), only Favors, Evans and Jefferson have a better rating.

If somebody has synergy, I would love to see some of their defensive stats on Burks and Foye to see if there is additional insight.

While we are looking at the Drtg, look at the entire team, worst to best:
  1. Mo
  2. Hayward/Foye
  3. Burks/Marvin
  4. Pearl
  5. Tinsley
  6. Kanter
  7. Murphy/Carroll
  8. Sap
  9. Jefferson/Evans
  10. Favors
So we should also discuss that Marvin and Hayward are also as bad a as Foye.

What does this mean? For me, it means that the Drtg is a bit all over the board for the Jazz. The range is 101-111. Starters and reserves end up on both ends of the list, and they don't correlate with many opinions that are common:
Hayward and Marvin are usually thought of as good defenders, AL as bad (at least pick 'n' roll). I would also expect Mo to be the best of the pgs.

I am open to hear that there is a relevant patten to the above list. I just don't see it right off the bat. The only thing that jumps out is that the team is #21 in the leaugue, no bueno.
Click to expand...

You win.
 
I've been saying all along that Burks has the physical part of the game down, but we'll have to see if he has the mental.
 
vegas said:
Not arguing against, but man you didn't even link Foye's stats. So I looked them up , and looked up the top ten to gain perspective on how bad things are. To your poiint the top Drtg player for the league has always been a renowned defender.

I also take it with a grain of salt. Drtg is a for a player is basically defensive +/-. It can show trends, or a player can be hammered by his teammates. Ortg on the other hand is specific to the individual.

The sad fact is that Boozer is not bad enough to pull down the Bulls D this year, who knows, maybe he even learned something. Lunatic also makes a good point that Boozer is helped by a good defensive team. Interestingly, if you hadicap him the difference between the Jazz & Bulls overall (~5.5 pts), only Favors, Evans and Jefferson have a better rating.

If somebody has synergy, I would love to see some of their defensive stats on Burks and Foye to see if there is additional insight.

While we are looking at the Drtg, look at the entire team, worst to best:
  1. Mo
  2. Hayward/Foye
  3. Burks/Marvin
  4. Pearl
  5. Tinsley
  6. Kanter
  7. Murphy/Carroll
  8. Sap
  9. Jefferson/Evans
  10. Favors
So we should also discuss that Marvin and Hayward are also as bad a as Foye.

What does this mean? For me, it means that the Drtg is a bit all over the board for the Jazz. The range is 101-111. Starters and reserves end up on both ends of the list, and they don't correlate with many opinions that are common:
Hayward and Marvin are usually thought of as good defenders, AL as bad (at least pick 'n' roll). I would also expect Mo to be the best of the pgs.

I am open to hear that there is a relevant patten to the above list. I just don't see it right off the bat. The only thing that jumps out is that the team is #21 in the leaugue, no bueno.
Click to expand...

Welp looks like we can put this thread in the trash and move on.
 
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