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Burks is the Best Wing In Class

It's easier to be a role player who can shoot though. Stars can afford not to be shooters because they usually have the ball in their hands.
 
This is true; we also have another non-PG (Hayward) who is good with the ball. He is probably going to begin his career scoring hoops around the basket (ala Brewer). He does need to get stronger, however.
 
The Thriller said:
Haters are continuing to hate.

KOC could draft Michael Jordan and people on this board would find ways to complain.
"He's a cancer!"
"He's too competitive!"
"He's a ballhog!"

Folks, the Jazz got the 2 best players available when they drafted while also covering needs. The Jazz made out like very few teams did on draft night.
Yet, you morons complain.

I'm glad KOC doesn't care what you think. He can continue to give you his finger with picks of Hayward and Burks and Kanter for all I care.

Go back to playing 2K11, haters.
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I know it's still too early to fully assess the trades and picks, but KOC has done a helluva job, IMO, of rebuilding the franchise - TWICE. Almost got there with the core of AK, Boozer, Okur, Deron. Unfortunately, due to injuries, it took a little bit longer than it should have to see the fatal flaws. And then it takes a few years after that to shed the unwanted long-term contracts, unless you're like some franchise and just keep trading bad for bad (or bad for worse!).

And now, the Jazz have four great prospects and a future lottery pick still in hand. I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm, but in 3-4 years, Favors-Kanter-Hayward-Burks- could develop into one of the best starting groups in the league. Just need to add a solid PG as Harris will be getting a bit old.
 
I also have to keep reminding myself that Burks was the 12th pick to help temper my excitement for him and the draft overall. I'm sure some is just Jazz optimism (kool-aid) but seems strange that he slipped as far as he did, some of it could be because Cavs taking Tristan at #4 followed by the run of international players, combined with some concentrating on perceived flaws of lack of 3 point shooting and defense. As well as who knows maybe he didn't interview well with his nervous, quiet voice could have left a bad impression and maybe didn't work out well for some teams who knows.
All I know is I'm glad the Jazz picked him and focused on his positives (passing, rebounding, FT %, mid range shooting, slashing) and understanding if he works he can improve the D with effort and the 3% with practice and repetitions.
 
green said:
I like the stats. Heck, worst case scenario, we now have a very solid bench player that can run the floor, get into lanes, get to the FT line, and at times, carry the second team offensively. Great role player.
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Agree, that's Burks' floor. And at best, who knows? If he can play 3 positions, that gives the Jazz a ton of versatility.
 
I haven't formed an opinion of Burks yet, I want to see him play first. But here is some interesting stuff from LockedoutJazz:

@Lockedonsports : Found 10 comps to @alecburks10 NCAA 3pt % - those 10 on average shot within 1 percentage point of their NCAA three point shooting # in NBA

All 10 of those shot 33% or below from 3 in their college careers.

Found 15 comps to Alec Burks who shot 35% or below 3pt in NCAA - on average those players were also within 1% of their NCAA 3 pts %

Biggest improvements from NCAA to NBA - Michael Redd (32 to 38%) Eric Gordon (34 to 38%) Kevin Martin (34% to 38%) Randy Foye (33 to 36%)

Consensus of research - Guys who shots below 33% 3pt in NCAA don't become shooter in NBA - guys who go to line in NCAA go to line in NBA
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NUMBERICA said:
That's a little disheartening.
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Not disheartening at all. "guys who go to line in NCAA go to line in NBA"

If he can get to the line at a ridiculous rate for the Jazz like he did at CU, I couldn't give a rat's *** if he isn't a great 3pt shooter.

I don't know if this has been posted on JF...

With a tip of the hat to Bill Murphy who tipped me off to some of these numbers. Alec Burks may be a much better offensive player than we realize. Most people want to focus on what he can’t do which was shot the three in his sophomore season. However, if you place the focus on what he does do he is in some elite company.

Last year Alec Burks shot over 300 free throws. Since 1998, no other shooting guard in college has shot 300 free throws in a season in his freshman or sophomore season. The only players to do so are (Blake Griffin, Tyler Hansbrough, Troy Murphy and Derrick Williams).

If you drop the free throw attempt number to 250, wing players Michael Beasley, Kevin Durant, Eric Gordon, James Harden and Rodney Stuckey all join the group.

Bill Murphy ran a query of 19 pts a game, at least 5 rebounds per game, 2 assists and 7 free throws per game. James Harden and Kevin Martin were two of the names that appeared. Burks and Harden were the only players to emerge from a BCS conference.

In his sophomore year Burks scored over 700 pts, grabbed over 200 rebounds, had over 100 assists and went to the line over 225 times. He is the only player to accomplish this since 1998 as a sophomore in the NCAA. Six other players have accomplished this feat, they are Kemba Walker, Dominique Jones, Reggie Williams, Norris Cole, Bo McCalebb and Dwyane Wade.

Wade and Burks are the only players of that group to accomplish this without the three point shot being a part of their arsenal. In fact only Burks, Wade and Bo McCalebb (New Orleans) have had 700 pts, 200 rebounds, 100 assists with less than 30 three pointers.

Only 5 guards since 1998 have scored 700 points while hitting less than 30 three pointers, Alec Burks, Lanrdy Fields, Bo McCalebb, Andre Emmett and Dwyane Wade.

Bil Murphy looked at some career numbers and Burks has some interesting company. College players who averaged at least 19 pts, 5 rebs, 2 assists and shot 6 free throws per game in their career include names such as Wally Sczerbiak, James Harden, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Martin, Carmelo Anthony and Reggie Williams. What is worth noting is other than Lee Nailon their aren’t players who were drafted and didn’t make it. Nailon, in fact, had a solid career for a late 2nd round pick.

Three players come out as most common comparisons on the collegiate front to Alec Burks, Rodney Stuckey, James Harden and Dwayne Wade. Harden shot the three on the college level and has continued to do so on the NBA level. Wade and Stuckey have both had no difficulty getting to line and scoring in the NBA, but have never become shooters. Stuckey’s game has been muted by an ill-advised quest to turn him into a point guard.

Any of those three would be a great pick up for the Utah Jazz at 12 in this year’s draft
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Wade's career 29% from 3, best season 31. Kobe's career 34, best season 38. Rose was 33 last season. Westbrook 33. James is basically a guaranteed 33 every year. Melo has put up 35 and 37, but he's basically a 33 on the rise. Ellis put up 36 last year, but that's his best season.

He's obviously very unlikely to be as good as any of these guys, but lots of elite scorers in the league don't shoot well from deep. Scoring is an actual talent. Hopefully Burks ability to score translates.
 
billyshelby said:
Wade's career 29% from 3, best season 31. Kobe's career 34, best season 38. Rose was 33 last season. Westbrook 33. James is basically a guaranteed 33 every year. Melo has put up 35 and 37, but he's basically a 33 on the rise. Ellis put up 36 last year, but that's his best season.

He's obviously very unlikely to be as good as any of these guys, but lots of elite scorers in the league don't shoot well from deep. Scoring is an actual talent. Hopefully Burks ability to score translates.
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Agreed. Sometimes for the better athetes, staying poor to mediocre from deep is a blessing in disguise. It keeps these guys attacking the hoop, putting oppenents on their heels and getting to the FT line where damage in the NBA is really done.
 
If he is going to be running some minutes at the point its not that big of a deal to have a three point shot. What is important is he is a knockdown mid range shooter like Millsap so he can make teams consistently pay on p&r situations. If he is used purely as an off the ball player like Brewer, then his inability to spread the floor as a three point threat will be a little more concerning with the advanced zones teams can now play.
 
The problem with him not being a 3-point shooter is that it means he either is a big deal or he's out of the league after his rookie deal, the way I see it. If he's a star, great, but of course you'd want a player to be able to do something as oppose to not.

I'd like all players on 'my' team to be able to play inside of a team concept instead of on top of it. A perimeter player being able to be a deep-ball threat is quite pivotal in the grand scheme of things.
 
NUMBERICA said:
A perimeter player being able to be a deep-ball threat is quite pivotal in the grand scheme of things.
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Agreed. A team has to have perimeter shooters in order to take advantages of mismatches. Keeping the defense honest and the floor spread will be the key to our future domination of the paint.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I'd like all players on 'my' team to be able to play inside of a team concept instead of on top of it. A perimeter player being able to be a deep-ball threat is quite pivotal in the grand scheme of things.
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It's possible I'm just not getting your point hear, but it sounds like your saying he's not a team player.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
It's possible I'm just not getting your point hear, but it sounds like your saying he's not a team player.
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I don't think that's what he's saying at all. I think he's saying that having perimeter players that aren't perimtere shooting threats can stifle the offense or at least limit your offensive playbook. I could be wrong.
 
Recent NBA history is absolutely littered with very effective wings who didn't/don't shoot the three well.

Richard Hamilton, Kobe Bryant, Jeff Malone, Reggie Lewis are just a few very good wings I looked up quickly who had some of their more successful seasons without shooting the 3 ball worth a ****.

This past season, you have a good mixture of all-stars and role playing wings who will have or have had long careers that didn't shoot the three well...

LeBron, Budinger, Foye, Mo Evans, Kobe, CJ, R. Fernandez, Wade, Posey, Jeff Green, Ariza, Joe Johnson, Arenas, Evan Turner, Matt Barnes, Aminu, Paul George, Tyreke Evans, Stuckey, Sefalosha
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Recent NBA history is absolutely littered with very effective wings who didn't/don't shoot the three well.

Richard Hamilton, Kobe Bryant, Jeff Malone, Reggie Lewis are just a few very good wings I looked up quickly who had some of their more successful seasons without shooting the 3 ball worth a ****.

This past season, you have a good mixture of all-stars and role playing wings who will have or have had long careers that didn't shoot the three well...

LeBron, Budinger, Foye, Mo Evans, Kobe, CJ, R. Fernandez, Wade, Posey, Jeff Green, Ariza, Joe Johnson, Arenas, Evan Turner, Matt Barnes, Aminu, Paul George, Tyreke Evans, Stuckey, Sefalosha
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That list totally boggles my mind, but in attempting to address such a wide swath of players, how many have won a ring? How many of them actually aren't good shooters? How many CAN play off the ball that aren't stars? Do they win? Are they all-time greats? I'm just scrambled right now, so I'll just ignore it.

And as far as Burks goes, all we know about him is that he can handle the ball and get to the line (in college). If he can't learn to shoot better/touch the ball less and/or become a star-esque player, where does he fit in?

Whether you like Maggette or hate him, he is the closest comparison I can think of in the NBA, and his teams haven't done well. Or Evan Turner (without the defense, gaudy rebounding and assist numbers, or winning). I'm really not saying Burks is a cancer, but his play is not just about him. This game is not about one on one and the only way Burks goes to the line is if he's essentially given the keys/green light immediately and that's not usually a recipe for success. If Burks was even known to play off the ball I'd be a little more comfortable, but we're just going to have to wait and see how this plays out. I'll be the first to say Burks has star potential, but I just care about winning. Him not having played off the ball to get those numbers concerns me a little bit, especially since CU wasn't successful (and add in how much his teammates 'sucked' until you're blue in the face if you want).

If you take Nowitski off of the playoff Mavericks, they are still a playoff team because no one NEEDED the ball in their hands to be effective, and everyone except their Cs could punish you from 3. Personally, I'd like to try to build a team where the strength of the shooting and collective versatility/unselfishness make EVERYONE a lot better than they are individually. Kind of like the Jazz teams of the past, but not bricklaying, non-elite talents like the Boozer-era teams.
 
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Honestly, someone give me a comparison of a wing that needs the ball in their hands to be effective and is a role-player? History says Burks will have to just become a star or that he'll have to learn to round out his game. I'm not saying he won't do either, I'm just on planet earth. If he does both, then he's franchise-player material. But if he can't do either, where does he fit in?
 
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