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BYU to the Big 12 discussion???

This. By a margin of 2 - 1.

The biggest reason BYU has that edge is the same reason it can't get bigger (The Church). Give Utah the same length of success as the Lavell Cougars had and Utah will dwarf BYU to a similar degree.

And how did the first-born University become "little brother" anyway?
 
Anyway, back to the actual subject...

Let's review what's happened thus far:

TCU has an invite.

That's it. 4 or 5 more slots to go.
As of right now, it's actually 2 more slots to go. With the Big East falling apart...

I think BYU overplayed their hand and blew it. I think the Big 12 is grabbing TCU and looking east (ransacking [other] Big East schools) and BYU can be left to be stoked on the Armed Forces Bowl for the foreseeable future.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
The biggest reason BYU has that edge is the same reason it can't get bigger (The Church). Give Utah the same length of success as the Lavell Cougars had and Utah will dwarf BYU to a similar degree.
Agreed. Update us in 30 years.

And how did the first-born University become "little brother" anyway?
By sucking for a really long time.
 
Agreed. Update us in 30 years.
If the Utes can get a QB that doesn't blow (plausible) and can keep Whittingham (also plausible since he could've coached BYU and probably Florida already and turned both down obviously), I think it would take 10. Maybe less. That would also depend on what BYU does over the next decade as one of the important factors in that percentage flip would be BYU defectors/kids growing up that might lean heavily Utah in such a scenario.
 
If the Utes can get a QB that doesn't blow (plausible) and can keep Whittingham (also plausible since he could've coached BYU and probably Florida already and turned both down obviously), I think it would take 10. Maybe less. That would also depend on what BYU does over the next decade as one of the important factors in that percentage flip would be BYU defectors/kids growing up that might lean heavily Utah in such a scenario.
I got this day circled in 2022.
 
If the Utes can get a QB that doesn't blow (plausible) and can keep Whittingham (also plausible since he could've coached BYU and probably Florida already and turned both down obviously), I think it would take 10. Maybe less. That would also depend on what BYU does over the next decade as one of the important factors in that percentage flip would be BYU defectors/kids growing up that might lean heavily Utah in such a scenario.

They're off to a great start in their quest.
 
I'll tell you guys this again because it's a 100% fact. The Big 12 has been inviting everyone and everything of value that is left lately. They are going to 14. Don't put any weight into what they are saying publicly. BYU has an offer and has had an offer for weeks, ever since this topic was started basically. If they end up being Independent it's because they wanted to be Independent.
 
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I'll tell you guys this again because it's a 100% fact. The Big 12 has been inviting everyone and everything of value that is left lately. They are going to 14. Don't put any weight into what they are saying publicly. BYU has an offer and has had an offer for weeks, ever since this topic was started basically. If they end up being Independent it's because they wanted to be Independent.
Nice caveat.
 
I'll tell you guys this again because it's a 100% fact. The Big 12 has been inviting everyone and everything of value that is left lately. They are going to 14. Don't put any weight into what they are saying publicly. BYU has an offer and has had an offer for weeks, ever since this topic was started basically. If they end up being Independent it's because they wanted to be Independent.

If BYU had an offer we would know about it. It would have been leaked by now. This isn't the Deron Williams trade. As for them going to 14.... I don't really see it. Why dilute their conference down by adding a couple more questionable programs. It might be one thing if they were intending to add Louisville, West Virginia, BYU, and Boise State. I just don't see it happening for Boise State and I am getting less and less optimistic about BYU's chances now.
 
If BYU had an offer we would know about it.

Why? News reporting is essentially dead. Let's be honest, the Utah media absolutely sucks at getting any inside dirt and twitter and other social media have made no comments or flat out lying more in vogue than ever. Then you throw legal issues and negotiation tactics on top of that, and the media situation is even more muddled. The Big 12 isn't going to say they got rejected by BYU, it does nothing for them. BYU is not going to say they rejected the Big 12, it does nothing for them. Add to that the fact that BYU's decision makers aren't even available to the media at any time really, and certainly not for sports related questions, and it's not that hard to keep things in house.

The fans themselves prevent any credible leaks by taking firm grips at the polars and making cases for each and being dragged along by every little morsel of information that comes out of God only knows where.
 
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I doubt BYU went independent planning on staying independent for long. Obviously, they are one of the few schools that could pull it off and they have to make plans like an independent. But I think there's no question they saw the writing on the table and wanted to have as many options as possible.
 
I agree the end game is not to stay Independent. I have been saying all along BYU ends up in the Big 12. I think they go back to 12. I think the Big East stays together. There won't be nearly as much shake up and change as everyone keeps thinking (just like last year).
 
There won't be nearly as much shake up and change as everyone keeps thinking (just like last year).
Agreed. I don't know where BYU ends up. Big 12 seems like it will happen but you never know. When Texas was doing their network they were communicating pretty heavy with BYU because BYU was already there. And now they're playing each other. But Texas is only one school out of 10.

If BYU goes there or somewhere else then great. If they don't? Still great. It would be cool to pull in some better recruits but BYU has shown they can compete every now and then with lesser athletes.

I think the big difference to joining a big conference would be a greater influx of elite LDS athletes.
 
Even though I'm a "hater", I gave BYU kudos for the move to independence. They certainly couldn't sit around in the MWC after Utah left. That would have looked horrible, not to mention the fact that it was simply a smart business decision. I also thought that it would only be temporary as they were bound to find their way into the Big 12.

I think all of that is starting to unravel now. While I still think the move was a must for BYU, it's starting to look like the Big 12 isn't going to take them and if this season is any indication, I'm seriously starting to wonder if they can survive as an independent. Interest has been lower than ESPN was hoping for and while BYU has shown that they will be able to schedule quality opponents in the future, IMO they still haven't shown a way as to how they are going to solve having such a front-loaded schedule. As it stands right now, most of BYU's schedule from mid-october on is going to be filled with the WAC schools. Having a schedule with the likes of Utah, Texas, Boise State, Georgia Tech, Penn State, etc, is certainly excellent IMO, but it does you little good if the 5 toughest games of the season come during the first 6 weeks. It's almost impossible to ask BYU (or any team for that matter) to come out of the first half of the season undefeated on those terms. That's huge because it means as soon as loss #1 happens, they're already booked to the Armed Forces Bowl (until/unless a stronger bowl tie-in emerges). The inevitable fall-out from that is that 1 or 2 weeks into the season, your fans already know that you're not making any type of run to a decent bowl, interest dwindles, tv ratings drop, and ESPN quietly wonders how much longer they want to be partners with BYU.

I know some BYU fans are already trying to cushion the fallout but I don't buy it for a second. Duck saying something along the lines of "if BYU ends up independent, that's what they wanted all along" is the perfect example of viewing this thing with blue-colored glasses (and it's Aggie blue at that). Make no mistake: BYU made this independence move with a future move to a BCS conference in mind. Anything short of that and this move is going to prove to be an unmitigated disaster. The basketball team was sold-up the river and will now be playing in high school gyms for the sake of a football team that's not going to be able to hold the fans interests year in and year out while they are an 8-to-9 win independent team.
 
Even though I'm a "hater", I gave BYU kudos for the move to independence. They certainly couldn't sit around in the MWC after Utah left. That would have looked horrible, not to mention the fact that it was simply a smart business decision. I also thought that it would only be temporary as they were bound to find their way into the Big 12.

I think all of that is starting to unravel now. While I still think the move was a must for BYU, it's starting to look like the Big 12 isn't going to take them and if this season is any indication, I'm seriously starting to wonder if they can survive as an independent. Interest has been lower than ESPN was hoping for and while BYU has shown that they will be able to schedule quality opponents in the future, IMO they still haven't shown a way as to how they are going to solve having such a front-loaded schedule. As it stands right now, most of BYU's schedule from mid-october on is going to be filled with the WAC schools. Having a schedule with the likes of Utah, Texas, Boise State, Georgia Tech, Penn State, etc, is certainly excellent IMO, but it does you little good if the 5 toughest games of the season come during the first 6 weeks. It's almost impossible to ask BYU (or any team for that matter) to come out of the first half of the season undefeated on those terms. That's huge because it means as soon as loss #1 happens, they're already booked to the Armed Forces Bowl (until/unless a stronger bowl tie-in emerges). The inevitable fall-out from that is that 1 or 2 weeks into the season, your fans already know that you're not making any type of run to a decent bowl, interest dwindles, tv ratings drop, and ESPN quietly wonders how much longer they want to be partners with BYU.

I know some BYU fans are already trying to cushion the fallout but I don't buy it for a second. Duck saying something along the lines of "if BYU ends up independent, that's what they wanted all along" is the perfect example of viewing this thing with blue-colored glasses (and it's Aggie blue at that). Make no mistake: BYU made this independence move with a future move to a BCS conference in mind. Anything short of that and this move is going to prove to be an unmitigated disaster. The basketball team was sold-up the river and will now be playing in high school gyms for the sake of a football team that's not going to be able to hold the fans interests year in and year out while they are an 8-to-9 win independent team.

This.
 
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