Caitlyn Jenner

[Carbon13]

Im a little late to the conversation, but I think Caitlyn has the right to do what she wants. Its wrong to make fun of her or make derogatory remarks. That said, I believe in an open forum discussion and also think its wrong to label people phobic if they disagree with it. There are a lot of reasons why someone might think its wrong but as long as they are respectful it doesnt make them small minded.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Yes because you're denying their right their own identity. By calling Ms. Jenner things like "he-she", or "he", you're basically stripping her of a right to her identity-- regardless if you agree with it or not. Try and put yourself in her shoes.



Them scary Mozlems.



it would be as if I went around calling all of yall heathens, and stripped you of your right to identify as Christian. That would make me a 'Christianphobe'


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but this cuts both was
isnt redefining a religious concept as marriage denying all these religious "nuts". their identity of holy matirmony?

you wont answer cus you are a coward. but this whole denying identity argument cuts both ways.


if disagreeing withsomeone something makes u a phobe or a cist. well meet me the BIGGEST PHOBYcIsT

 

[Deleted member 848]

See I disagree. I don't care if you say I'm not a Christian, you don't have the authority to determine those things. I mean do you honestly think you saying I'm not a Christian would strip me of that identity?

The problem with this is that this entire comparison is 100% apples to oranges. You simply aren't trying to put yourself in a woman's shoes who's undergone a sex-change. Gender identity is so much more noticeable, and has so much more of a history of people calling their identities mental disorders, and that they shouldn't be allowed to embrace the identities that they do. You simply aren't understanding, my friend.

That's asinine. And I wouldn't call you a Christianphobe, as you're merely disagreeing with it, which we should have the right to do. A society that is not allowed to disagree with things is no free society.

And a hateful society is an unjust society that Jesus would frown upon.

Again, phobia indicates having a fear of something. Disagreeing with something does not mean you have a fear of it.

It's a common generalization made by the trans-community-- due to the majority of their critics being very inconsiderate of their identities (largely out of fear & not understanding). Like all generalizations, it's a 'generalization'-- still, I'd rather be labelled as a transphobe than a prick (which is quite-honestly what you are, when you call a harmless individual something they don't like to be called)

Finally, I never called Bruce a "he-she", I called him a he, because that's what I view him as. Now my view doesn't make him any more, or less what he is. I'm not denying his viewpoints, he gets to keep those.

That's the thing though-- referring to Caitlyn as 'he' is simply incredibly rude to someone who was flipped over their entire life & strained a 20< year marriage with multiple children simply to embrace this identity she always felt lost without. I'm not sure what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called.


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[NAOS]

I, for one, am tottttttalllly shocked that Hantlers is wiffffffffing this thread.

 

[Deleted member 365]

How many men in LA had this reaction after they saw that photo?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j8m8L8B7pM

I'd hit that...

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm not sure what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called.


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call me his "holy pope Francis the 3rd" then.

 

[b_line]

Caitlyn's sex is biologically male-- but her gender is female. People identify with gender, not with sex. Caitlyn is a she. It's disrespectful and transphobic to refer to her as otherwise


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Now wait just a gosh darn minute. It's dishonest to jump to the conclusion that since I stated that missster Jenner has a weiner that I am a transphobe. You are much better than that.

Also, you are confused about your own terminology here. If male and female are the sex terms, and boy/girl are the gender terms, then Brucelyn has to be a *******, right?

Does calling herm a ******* make me a transphobe? Does the word herm make me a transphobe?

Also, what about my definition of gender? Why is it that I am some sort of a bigot if this person does not fit into what I define as a certain gender? Why can't everyone agree that this person falls somewhere in the middle? I mean, at some point when he was banging Kim's mom, he identified as a man, right?

How do you know that to call her anything else is transphobe? Did she say that? Maybe she wants to be called third gender. I have met some people who like to use that term. Just because you think he looks like a girl now doesn't mean that is what they identify with. Your saying that she would not want to be called he might be the actual transphobe statement.

 

[b_line]

Now wait just a gosh darn minute. It's dishonest to jump to the conclusion that since I stated that missster Jenner has a weiner that I am a transphobe. You are much better than that.

Also, you are confused about your own terminology here. If male and female are the sex terms, and boy/girl are the gender terms, then Brucelyn has to be a *******, right?

Does calling herm a ******* make me a transphobe? Does the word herm make me a transphobe?

Also, what about my definition of gender? Why is it that I am some sort of a bigot if this person does not fit into what I define as a certain gender? Why can't everyone agree that this person falls somewhere in the middle? I mean, at some point when he was banging Kim's mom, he identified as a man, right?

How do you know that to call her anything else is transphobe? Did she say that? Maybe she wants to be called third gender. I have met some people who like to use that term. Just because you think he looks like a girl now doesn't mean that is what they identify with. Your saying that she would not want to be called he might be the actual transphobe statement.

so... she-male is apparently in the profanity filter.

 

[b_line]

Thinking about this more, I have a couple of observations:

1. It's some ******** that Dal would call anyone a transphobe for not using the correct term here, especially when the right term is probably some form of "It" that doesn't really exist yet. If Bruce really wanted to be called she, then he would not identify as transgender, he would identify as a girl/woman.

2. You should not post or read in this thread unless you want to have a bunch of stupid foreign dating ads pop up on the jazzfanz ads.

 

[LogGrad98]

I have no issues with people doing what they want as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's right to do what they want and vice versa. Which actually makes smokers an interesting discussion because their choice to smoke in public interferes with my right to not have smoke blown in my face as I walk down the street. But I digress...

But I call ******** on the whole societal construct gender-fluidity thesis that is every bit as much a construct as gender is claimed to be. Call it what it is, a choice. They choose to be a different gender. Done. Over. Choices are just fine. But to strive so hard for some kind of scientific or academic legitimacy is a lot like all the crap people go through to avoid the impact of their choices. Just ball up...or ovary up I guess, and make the choice and live your life. I have read interviews with Jenner and he says more or less the same, that this is his choice and he accepts what comes along with it in our society. I agree that people who make such choices should not be punished for those decisions, but not because of some gawd-awful attempt at a legitimizing theory of trans-genderness that transcends all physical metaphysical gobbledygook, but just plain old do what is right. So for Jenner, good on him, er, her. Take it like a man..uh, woman. Um. Take it like a human being!

 

[Archie Moses]

Yes because you're denying their right their own identity. By calling Ms. Jenner things like "he-she", or "he", you're basically stripping her of a right to her identity-- regardless if you agree with it or not. Try and put yourself in her shoes.



Them scary Mozlems.



it would be as if I went around calling all of yall heathens, and stripped you of your right to identify as Christian. That would make me a 'Christianphobe'

This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while.

First, I just want to say, I have no problem with what Caitlyn is doing and if it makes her happy then all to her.

Second, no one has a right to be called anything and by choosing to not call someone by what they want to be called they are not being stripped of anything. Why, because it's not a right. I can't stand entitlement.

Third, is gender something that someone self-identifies with? Absolutely. That said, there are some major flaws and dangers in this concept as well and think they need to be addressed to biology not sociology - In other words, sometimes you have to play the cards you're dealt with in life. I know, shocking concept. Examples of what I'm talking about include everything from the perv at Planet Fitness (please, someone, I dare you to say to say "she" or it was the offended member's fault - I personally read that creepy guy's facebook page.) MMA, golf, and movies like Juanna Mann.

 

[LogGrad98]

^ what he said...

Even if you accept the whole gender as a social construct thing then you have to take all parts of that construct to really analyze it and make it meaningful in any way, and you cannot deny that biological sex is a strong part of it. We do not randomly assign gender at birth then enforce it regardless of hardware. If a child is born with a penis it is a "boy", etc. So if you are going to make this a meaningful academic discussion you must accept ALL aspects of that construct and cannot simply choose to exclude one aspect entirely and then claim that anyone who disagrees with you analysis of that construct after arbitrarily eliminating valid components as a "transphobe". That is ad hominem at the beginning, and pure intellectually dishonest.