Can we just release Burke and Hayward?

[CitizenofCapua]

If Hayward can do other things exceptionally well like assisting, rebounding, defending, attacking etc. i dont mind his poor shooting at all but he should accept this role and stop chucking the ball like he is freaking Hornacek.

 

[billyshelby]

If Hayward can do other things exceptionally well like assisting, rebounding, defending, attacking etc. i dont mind his poor shooting at all but he should accept this role and stop chucking the ball like he is freaking Hornacek.

But Hayward doesn't do any of those things exceptionally well. He definitely can't "attack,", he's an average defender, and his rebounding only looks nice because he gets 36 minutes. In fact, all his stats are horribly inflated by minutes alone.

I find his passing interesting. He can definitely pass. But there are two problems with his passing ability. One, nearly all his assists are to outside shooters, not at the basket. Two, on a team with quality players, he would handle the ball much less, and his assist numbers would come down dramatically even with the minutes.

 

[CitizenofCapua]

But Hayward doesn't do any of those things exceptionally well. He definitely can't "attack,", he's an average defender, and his rebounding only looks nice because he gets 36 minutes. In fact, all his stats are horribly inflated by minutes alone.

I find his passing interesting. He can definitely pass. But there are two problems with his passing ability. One, nearly all his assists are to outside shooters, not at the basket. Two, on a team with quality players, he would handle the ball much less, and his assist numbers would come down dramatically even with the minutes.

Most of his assists are not hockey assists. He is dribbling the ball and when he draw the defense on him he is kicking the ball out so he should get credit for it and he is good at two man games with kanter, favors so he is also getting some numbers from there.

Also i think he is a good defender he really pissed of Wade against Miami he got lenght, long arms and he is athletic so i think he would always be above average with his defense.

And if he attacks the rim more often it would be better for him. He can really play over the rim and draw fouls with his vertical, athleticism like Burks doing really good lately and he also did it at last game. And he is shooting good at the line so he can attack and easily can get some of his points from charity stripe.

 

[VINYLONE]

I'm less hopeful by the day, but still hopeful.

This is kind of perplexing to me. I mean, we're 4 months into his career and you're essentially writing him off. Think about that...4 months.

 

[Primetime]

But Hayward doesn't do any of those things exceptionally well. He definitely can't "attack,", he's an average defender, and his rebounding only looks nice because he gets 36 minutes. In fact, all his stats are horribly inflated by minutes alone.

If you think his numbers are "inflated" because of his minutes than look at his advanced stats and it will give you a better idea of how he is doing! I made a list of wing players who got more than 1000 minutes this season and ranked them based on AST%, REB% and FTr(Alec is also on that list!).

Spoiler

I don't know how you define "exceptionally well" but his passing and playmaking is elite in my book(compared to wings!). His rebounding ain't elite but he is above average and it has nothing to do with the minutes he gets. I agree with the defensiv part but really who is an above average defender on this team? We just have Derrick who is above average and that's it. And more than individual defensive guys this team needs a coach who can implant TEAM DEFENSE. Like coach Clifford did in Charlotte. And he ain't getting to the line like an elite wing but again he is above average in that depature as well.

I find his passing interesting. He can definitely pass. But there are two problems with his passing ability. One, nearly all his assists are to outside shooters, not at the basket. Two, on a team with quality players, he would handle the ball much less, and his assist numbers would come down dramatically even with the minutes.

Why is him passing to outside shooters a problem? It's not like he is standing on the perimeter and passing to his left or his right and says "shoot it". There are really two possibilitys. He can drive to the basket or he can play a PnR with one of our bigs.
When he drives to the basket he can either dish or kick it to the outside. And defenses don't allow a drive and dish so much in the NBA. So it is up to the ball handler to make the right read. If the dish is not there than he have to find the open man at the perimeter and that's not a bad thing at all because it's a wide open shot most of the times.
When he runs a PnR with either Enes or Derrick there are the similar options. You find the roll(Derrick), the pop(Enes) or the outside shot. If the defense does not allow you the roll/pop than you gotta kick it out. And that wouldn't be a bad thing either.
He is doing a good job when he drives to the basket. I really don't remember situations where he didn't dish the ball in favor of an outside shot but he could do a better job in PnR situatins with Derrick but that really isn't just Gordon's problem.

And I totally disagree with your second part I don't see him as a top 2 scoring option on a team with quality players(he would be the 3rd or 4th opion) but I would still let him handle the ball and create for others even with quality players!

 

[franklin]

That's what I've been trying to say all along. I think CP3 and Deron shot around 42% their rookie years. I'm not afraid of the shooting, it's lack of getting inside the paint and to the foul line that makes me question how good he will be. Hopefully he'll find his niche and be able to be a solid player.

Why compare him to the game's best atm? Trey's not likely to become CP3 and that's not what we're expecting of him. The pg spot is in a loaded era and I'd like Trey to fall in somewhere in the top 15, with Conleyesque upside. That's a nice player worth keeping (and not bitching about at the all star break of his rookie season).

 

[JoelHodgeJr]

I'm also annoyed with all hate directed forwards Gordon. Hating on Burke is equally stupid.

Being a number one option is not always equivalent too being the best on the team. Look at Grant Hills career. A point forward who scored mainly off of post up and cutting. Not a great shot creator for himself but regarded as one of the best in the league.

Gordon value is also underrated because he's a point forward with no options to pass too. Its truly impressive that's he's averaging nearly 6asts a game with no out side shooters (Marv excluded) and very limited inside options.

He's struggling with scoring because the opposing defenses are focusing their game plan entirely on him. Its not like they are worried about any of the other starters going off for 40 points.

Burke is playing great. He's really playing at Deron Williams level when he was a rookie but has fewer options to pass too.
Too trade him away now would be a stupendously stupid mistake. Shooting is pretty much the only thing that all NBA players improve on as they age. Trey is not ellite but he wants to be. That drive is more important than anything else. You know he's going to hit the gym and improve.

This year is about rebuilding. It does not happen over night but yet many of you are panicked at the midpoint in the season. You forget to realize we have already met our expected win total for the season half way through. We are much better than anyone thought we would be. (That's a good thing!)

Patience is a virtue. Impatience is ignorance.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Stifle Tower]

Gordon is a point forward? I thought he was our starting SG.

 

[Doublea]

Why compare him to the game's best atm? Trey's not likely to become CP3 and that's not what we're expecting of him. The pg spot is in a loaded era and I'd like Trey to fall in somewhere in the top 15, with Conleyesque upside. That's a nice player worth keeping (and not bitching about at the all star break of his rookie season).

I'm not really comparing him to them, I'm comparing their fg%'s. Even the best struggled their rookie years.

 

[JoelHodgeJr]

SG is more about placement then playing style.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Doublea]

Gordon is a point forward? I thought he was our starting SG.

He's used as a point forward a lot of the time, that's why you see the ball in his hands.

 

[franklin]

I'm not really comparing him to them, I'm comparing their fg%'s. Even the best struggled their rookie years.

I wasn't meaning you. It was directed more toward all the OMGZ! Burke isn't gunna be CP3 let's trad him 4 darft picks stuff that's flooded the site since hitting his 5 game rookie wall.

The kid obviously has game. People need to calm down and let him grow.