Chad Ford: Exum > Burke right now; rookie player that's most positively surprising
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freakazoid
Well-Known Member
If his value drops that much, then we will just end up keeping him as a backup anyway. After burning 2 1sts on him, that will be a major failure, which is why we need to try and get his trade value up.
I was NOT saying Burke is only worth a bag of doritos. The "trading" guys here do that sort of thing. They take a guy they really don't like, say Trey, and then say "but lets keep playing him so that his trade value stays up" as if the GMs are not smarter than that.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Yep, reading is fundamental, but so is writing:
You wrote:
"For most players, yes, but for players who potentially have more value in a trade than in keeping, of course trade value factors in at times to the way coaches play them. This is especially true for a rebuilding team."
So, I repeat my question, how do you know this? (I'm curious where my interpretation of the above quote went haywire.)
"Sounds like you think there is no communication between coach and GM, once the coach is hired. Realistically, of course GMs tell the coaches what to do at times, when it comes to giving playing time to someone they are looking to move."
Again, I ask, how do you know this? I'm curious what your source of inside info is on this topic. I'm still skeptical this happens with any kind of frequency. Which brings us back to the implied question raised by others: Do you really think other GMs are that uniformed or naive that they would be swayed by this strategy given all other source of info about players?
Burke played well in preseason and I think he will play better as the season goes on. He seems like he is afraid of Exum behind him or is just frustrated with his poor play early. I think he will break out of this and and really step up and play like he did at times last year while hitting a better percentage of his shots.
That said he is not a starter in the NBA, but neither is Exum yet. I think Burke needs to start for now and if he is struggling and playing poor then Exum finishes games and gets more minutes. If he is not improved by the trade deadline then maybe you swap their roles. If he plays better and a good trade comes along great. If he plays much better and starts being the leader on the court this team wants him to be then we hold on to him until Exum is ready to be the leader or learn to play them together more.
That said he is not a starter in the NBA, but neither is Exum yet. I think Burke needs to start for now and if he is struggling and playing poor then Exum finishes games and gets more minutes. If he is not improved by the trade deadline then maybe you swap their roles. If he plays better and a good trade comes along great. If he plays much better and starts being the leader on the court this team wants him to be then we hold on to him until Exum is ready to be the leader or learn to play them together more.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Let me get the crayons out and draw you a picture. Sometimes GMs tell their coaches either to play/not play a player that is likely to be involved in a trade in the near future. WHEN THIS HAPPENS, THAT IS TRADE VALUE AFFECTING THE WAY A COACH USES A PLAYER. Have you seriously never heard of a player being benched in anticipation of a trade, so as to avoid having an injury ruin it. Happens all the time(lots of records and info on past trades, use google if you know how), but I suppose you think it's reasonable to assume that when GMs have a trade in the works, they just cross their ****ing fingers and hope the coach can read their minds.
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Rebuilding teams operate differently than teams that are a piece or two from contending. Obviously when every win counts, GMs aren't likely to tell a coach who to play, but on a rebuilding team that spent 2 1st rounders on a player who's only been in the league a year, you can bet your *** that the FO isn't going to concede failure by allowing him to be relegated to the bench, at least not anytime soon.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
And GM's ARE influenced by seeing a guy play instead of just looking at the stat sheets. Certainly Ronnie Price going off against Utah was a factor in him being offered a contract by the Jazz. The highest minutes played and points scored were in two of the games against Utah. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Novak suddenly get more minutes in late January and February against various playoff contenders.
As for Burke, I agree with freak...much too early to write him off and there is no drawback to not starting him. Quin has already cut his minutes some and given more to Exum. Jazz are thin at PG. Unless a deal really blew them away at the deadline, I don't see Utah doing anything. I know it's still early, but I see Trey kind of bouncing around the league like Earl Watson did: a low-end starter until a team finds a better option or a decent backup if/when he eventually accepts that role.
This is an interesting post that almost got lost in the jimmyeatjazz-and-freakazoid-need-to-hug-it-out.
I think you may be right that Burke is getting himself into some cycle of self doubt because Exum is behind him, and frankly, that's one of my least favorite things about Trey - his mindset. If we can recall back to when he was coming in last year, in the course of a week he: 1) went on a radio show with Sullinger where they laughed at the thought of Sullinger coming to Utah, 2) stated at his press conference that he saw himself as an All Star, 3) said ad nausea throughout the year that he was bringing leadership the Jazz needed to the team, etc, etc. In every interview - including the one last night - he speaks so highly of himself and seems unwilling to acknowledge, at least publicly, his struggles. "I feel like I'm getting a lot better on defense." "I feel like the team really listens to me as a leader now" blah blah blah.
You compare that with Hayward, or Stockton, or Malone, or LeBron, or KD and there's a stark difference - all of those guys talk about their shortcomings and their responsibility. Even after saving the game last night, Hayward was talking about how if he was more aggressive and hitting shots earlier it never would have come to that.
Trey has an impressive ego on him which is masking a lot of his own self-doubts. Quite frankly, it appears to be a fragile psychological profile. They've got to bolster him somehow soon, or he's going to go the way of Biedrin's freethrows.