Chad Ford: Exum > Burke right now; rookie player that's most positively surprising
- Thread starter Flc
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HighlandHomie
Well-Known Member
Chad Ford is a freaking idiot. It is completely reasonable and fair to say you think Exum is a better prospect than Burke, but to say he's better now is asinine.
He didn't say he's better now. He said he's outplayed him so far, which is objectively true.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Exum is still very, very raw.
I'm one of Burke's biggest critics - have been since last season. I don't think Trey ever becomes a top-15 PG and his days as a starter in Utah ARE numbered. But we're not even close to being there yet. The one thing Trey does very well is retain possession of the ball. He doesn't commit very many turnovers. Exum is still pretty loose. I'd rather see Dante continue to develop as the backup and gain confidence as he begins to dominate opposing PG's. Let's get him to that level before throwing him to the wolves against the great PG's of the league. As for Trey, I see him being the starter at least up to the trade deadline. But I do think we'll start to hear a few whispers by then, or certainly next summer. Trey will want to be a starter somewhere, but I think he'll bounce arouind the league like Watson did - as an interim starter until a team can upgrade and/or a valued backup.
I'm one of Burke's biggest critics - have been since last season. I don't think Trey ever becomes a top-15 PG and his days as a starter in Utah ARE numbered. But we're not even close to being there yet. The one thing Trey does very well is retain possession of the ball. He doesn't commit very many turnovers. Exum is still pretty loose. I'd rather see Dante continue to develop as the backup and gain confidence as he begins to dominate opposing PG's. Let's get him to that level before throwing him to the wolves against the great PG's of the league. As for Trey, I see him being the starter at least up to the trade deadline. But I do think we'll start to hear a few whispers by then, or certainly next summer. Trey will want to be a starter somewhere, but I think he'll bounce arouind the league like Watson did - as an interim starter until a team can upgrade and/or a valued backup.
Interesting to bring up taking care of the ball ,lets see :
Well one of the last positives of why Burke should be starting PG is his handles ,he doesn't turn the ball over ...
Burke has 13 turnovers in 158 minutes, 1 turnover for every 12 minutes of play
Exum has 5 turnovers in 112 minutes, 1 turnover for every 18 minutes of play
Athletic guards give Burke a problem ,not respecting his athleticism ?
Dante Exum's athleticism gets the defenders respect and also Exum has learned not to hold the ball to long
Well one of the last positives of why Burke should be starting PG is his handles ,he doesn't turn the ball over ...
Burke has 13 turnovers in 158 minutes, 1 turnover for every 12 minutes of play
Exum has 5 turnovers in 112 minutes, 1 turnover for every 18 minutes of play
Athletic guards give Burke a problem ,not respecting his athleticism ?
Dante Exum's athleticism gets the defenders respect and also Exum has learned not to hold the ball to long
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
^Intersting, tleikheen. Burke had a very good ATO ratio last season, IIRC. Seems like he's taken a step back this year. I had not looked at those stats, so I am a bit surprised. I still think you have to adjust for the competition,, though. Burke is going against starters; Exum is playing mostly against backups. But the divide may not be as great as I had imagined.
Why do Jazz have to wait til he starts dominating PG's.
As it is now ,he isn't turning the ball over OR HURTING the offense .In fact from my view he looks like he moves the ball much easily and smoothly within the offense than Trey Burke does.
Last nite against a top 5 PG (Irving ) Exum was tossed to the Wolves and played 25 minutes including crunch time and committed ZERO (0) turnovers.
Ball movement and good defense and don't turn the ball over ,Exum seems to be doing pretty good at.
True there,but from what he's demonstrating within the Jazz offense and showing he can play good defense NOW,shouldn't he start facing those wolves(Top NBA PG's) face to face now.You do have Trey Burke if certain PG's are more than Exum can handle this go around.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
From a non-statistical standpoint I prefer 'easing' Exum into the League the way we're doing it right now. He will be getting better and eventually will knock out Trey out of the lineup (his potential is A-ish), but it must be done at the right time. Why cause an unnecessary turmoil in the locker room when all of our players are developing at a quick rate and no one's complaining about anything right now.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I also think there's a trade value issue to consider. Demote Burke and he loses value. Put him on the block because coaches and GM's around the league see that Exum simply can't be kept on the bench is a completely different story. DL starts calling around at the deadline saying "we love Trey, but we can't keep Dante down any longer." Teams are more likely to consider trades heading into February, as playoff positioning starts to come into focus and injuries may influence decisions.
I'd like to see Exum become more aggressive even if it means more TOs and I think coming off the bench helps that. If he's starting I worry that he will not feel comfortable trying to force action on offense.
Biggest worry with him for me is not that he's playing loose, it's that he doesn't attack the basket nearly enough given his skillset.
Biggest worry with him for me is not that he's playing loose, it's that he doesn't attack the basket nearly enough given his skillset.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone's saying Exum should start over Burke... yet. I've just been very impressed with how good his game is already. Watching him, it's just like, if he can just figure out how to score, there'll be no stopping him.
This is it for me as well. There were a couple of times last night that Mike Miller was guarding him one on one and he doesn't look to take it to the basket. Totally excusable as he's young and trying to run the offense, but in my mind a good reason for him to come off the bench for a while.
framer
Well-Known Member
Bah, keep Trey AND Exum. I don't think Exum, with his frame, is ever going to be a 40 min a night kind of guy. And we may never get a #2 pg as good as Burke. If Burke moves to the bench, his stats will only get better, so his trade value won't diminish much. Also, here is a wild idea to consider: Burke is only going to improve as well. . .I just don't understand the absolute need to get rid of Burke even if you are high on Exum.
enchilada_style
Well-Known Member
Exum is still getting his minutes in his current role while allowing Snyder the ability to protect him if necessary. As bad as Burke has been playing I think for the course of the season you lose more games with Exum in the starting lineup. Rookie pg's make a lot bonehead mistakes I'd like to think Burke makes less mistakes over 82 games. I could be wrong.
A couple factors here ,demoting Burke isn't what's being said ,example Alec Burks didn't start last year but yet closed out games like a starter.And also Trey Burke's play itself is even why anybody is talking of more playing time for Exum ........and Exum isn't fumbling his opportunity.
Trey's value is a rookie contract value and as mentioned earlier,it's his performance that draws attn to him .Trey Burke was handed the starting job ,it's his to make a name for himself.Is he ?
Another factor ,what happens if the Jazz are the unexpected feel good team that is winning games that the pundits and experts didn't pick for them to do. The Jazz were picked last on last years play under Ty Corbin.Most fanz here listened to the last place picked finish for the Jazz.
All summer there was constant bad mouthing of Kanter and Hayward,the low ceiling placed on Favors and Gobert and Burks.
Now the Jazz are holding opposing teams to the lowest team total in team rebounding in the NBA.There winning the rebounding wars.
So what to do ,play Burke to maintain his "trade value"if he can't turn around his shooting woes.I don't think you trade away Burke this year but I also don't think you withold minutes from Exum if he shows he can play without hurting your offense/defense.If the Jazz are winning games with Exum getting significant minutes ,you can't worry about hurt feelings .Trey Burke is either with contributing or isn't.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Well then there's a dilemma at the 2 spot. You can only keep so much talent in a team, overlaps in the starting positions don't tend to work well in the long run. But again, there's no need to jump the gun here with Exum's development. The trade deadline comes around rather fast, if by that time a move needs to be done I have no doubt it will be.
Exum needs to be in better shape if he is going to start. Dude is still getting winded out there. At this point, I think there is no reason to get rid of Burke, he is still on his rookie contract and the Jazz aren't going to get the value for him unless it is a multiple player deal. Exum also needs to be more aggressive on offense. I know he is a rookie but dude needs to use one of his best gifts, his speed.
Fishsticks
Banned
I don't think Exum is winded as I have often stated. Its his mannerism. I don't see him slowing down and he is not breathing heavily, just bobbling around with his lanky neck and arms and bending over at breaks.
framer
Well-Known Member
Not really. If there is room for Ingles to get minutes right now, there is room for the core to extend their minutes without issues. We will need to get rid of some guys at a point, but you want the majority of guard minutes going to 4 guys tops.
Getting Traded
Banned
Trey is still developing as well. You start Exum now and it sets back Trey's development. Exum is developing nicely coming off the bench. Let things go as they are. Maybe by season's end, when we make the playoffs, Exum and Gobert will be getting the big minutes because they've earned it.