yeah, he made a boo boo. Think he had us taking Burks with his first one. Even according to DX's Givony, Ford had the most accurate mock last year so he is far from perfect, but he has a lot of contacts and ESPN's money.
Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0
- Thread starter sirkickyass
- Start date
yeah, he made a boo boo. Think he had us taking Burks with his first one. Even according to DX's Givony, Ford had the most accurate mock last year so he is far from perfect, but he has a lot of contacts and ESPN's money.
No way Cleveland would trade next year's pick unprotected for Kanter. Kanter is still to much of a question mark.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Then keep him. Seems like the three teams below the Jazz are quite enamored with the kid. They may become desperate enough to do an unprotected for him.
I think it's just a mistype. He has the Suns taking Alex Burks and the question was about the Suns.
I think the usual "fee" for a swap of two consecutive picks is $3 million.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
There isn't much precedence for top draft picks being traded.
Hardaway-Webber trade netted three first round picks that I believe were unprotected for the Warriors. That was a 1-3 draft trade.
Only other one I can think of is Mayo-Love, and that included players and not picks.
Maybe you're thinking of the Foye-Roy deal?
In researching this, ESPN had a nice blurb:
I think the Allen-Marbury trade where an unprotected first is given a good benchmark for the Jazz to go after.
Zerol
Active Member
No matter how bad they want Kanter, it would be stupid for them to give up their own unprotected 2012 pick. They will give up the Miami one in a hurry but not their own.
What can Toronto or Washington offer us for Kanter? The most logical one I can think of is Ed Davis + No.5 for No.3 in which they will pick Kanter.
I agree, though, KOC has to say he will take Kanter without any kind of hesitation to force Cleveland's hand. I am still hoping the T-Wolves pick Kanter though.
I was actually thinking of the Vince Carter - Antawn Jamison deal.
What I think the blurb actually shows is that the value of those draft pick swaps has declined over time or is highly variable depending on the draft and players involved. One of the other examples not included there is, of course, the Deron Williams pick trade in which we traded #6, #27, and the next year's #30 to move up to #3. Very low 1st rounders are, of course, of dubious value because of their guaranteed contracts. I know there's several teams that prefer high second rounders for this exact reason.
If we wanted to use the Deron trade as a blueprint I think the best shot for the Jazz (if they're insistent on taking Knight or Walker as a PG with their lottery pick) might be to try to trade #3 for this season's #6 and #18 since it's known that the Wizards like Kanter. Personally I think that's going the wrong direction but that might be considered reasonable value for a pick swap and #6, #12, and #18 would be a good opportunity for a young talent infusion (and might even give the Jazz a third bite at the Jimmer apple).
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
And that's why the Jazz should play hardball and demand an unprotected pick for 2012. Keeping the pick and taking Kanter really isn't a bad decision. It's much better than #6, #12, and #18.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Agreed. Take Kanter. Get someone like the Wiz to offer #6 (Knight), #18 (Who freakin' knows) and a 2012 unconditional 1st for #3 and I hate to say it, #12 too, which I think we'd have to include.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Good thoughts, kicky. It all depends on what the perceived talent drop-off is. It cost the Jazz quite a bit to go from #6 to #3 because there were 4 top players in the draft (Webber, Marvin Williams, DWill and CP3). After that you had Martell Webster, Raymond Felton, etc. Last season there was pretty much a consensus top-5 and KOC didn't have the assets to move up from #9 into that top group.
This year, I don't think any of the top 3 or 5 picks has a lot more value than the next several. Irving might be the consensus #1, but he's not projected to be at the same level as previous #1's. Minnesota is finding out there are few teams interested in giving up anything of significant value to move up. I don't necessarily think it's a "weak" draft. There is a lot of talent out there and the Jazz can get 2 potential starters or 6th-man types from their picks. But the draft does lack star power.
This year, I don't think any of the top 3 or 5 picks has a lot more value than the next several. Irving might be the consensus #1, but he's not projected to be at the same level as previous #1's. Minnesota is finding out there are few teams interested in giving up anything of significant value to move up. I don't necessarily think it's a "weak" draft. There is a lot of talent out there and the Jazz can get 2 potential starters or 6th-man types from their picks. But the draft does lack star power.
Obviously I feel we should take Kanter, I'm speculating as to what the Jazz could receive in exchange for a swap based upon previous deals.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
I'd do it for Toronto's unprotected 2012 as well. Maybe Washington, though I think a high 30's second rounder, or a player would have to adjoin the unprotected 2012 to make me consider it were I the GM.
fatchipper
Well-Known Member
I still think Minny passes on Williams and we pick him 3rd, then get Jimmer at 12.
blackham9258
Member
I would do it if KOC is convinced B Knight is the BPA. I would be okay with a swap of their pick next year with our GSW pick and allow them to top 3 protect their pick. If they get Irving and Kanter they will likely finish between 4-10 next year. (They played way better with Baron by the way, so I think they will be much better this year with fewer injuries and two talented additions plus free agency.)
I would prefer to offer them the lower of our possible two picks (GSW's and our own if we retain it somehow by not making the playoffs). Then, by giving that protection we should insist on this year second rounder and next years Miami pick.
Realistic result:
Cleveland #5 - Possible move up to get Barnes next year
Miami Pick- used to move up to get Barnes
Second Rounder this year- used to move up to get Biyombo, Burks or just sell it for a future first from someone needing a piece this year.
GSW pick ends up 12-20 (I actually think they make the playoffs next year)
But hopefully we just keep Kanter. I am not excited about a pg coming along slowly for two years behind Harris. I really would prefer Williams, but would be excited about Kanter too.
I would prefer to offer them the lower of our possible two picks (GSW's and our own if we retain it somehow by not making the playoffs). Then, by giving that protection we should insist on this year second rounder and next years Miami pick.
Realistic result:
Cleveland #5 - Possible move up to get Barnes next year
Miami Pick- used to move up to get Barnes
Second Rounder this year- used to move up to get Biyombo, Burks or just sell it for a future first from someone needing a piece this year.
GSW pick ends up 12-20 (I actually think they make the playoffs next year)
But hopefully we just keep Kanter. I am not excited about a pg coming along slowly for two years behind Harris. I really would prefer Williams, but would be excited about Kanter too.
Exactly. I'd be all for this.
Yep. Play hardball. If one of the bottom dwellers wants our pick bad enough then we have to get their 2012 pick unprotected.
The chance at Barnes or one of the hyped players next year would be hard to pass up. The GS pick is has no chance to get a top player in that draft.
