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Clarkson Likely to Get Extension

HermanG said:
And what # did we draft Donovan and Gobert at? FYI, we are gonna get higher picks than those 2 were selected with this year FOR SURE. The biggest thing with those 2 wasnt that we drafted them.... It was that we developed them to become the players they are. Much like we are seeing Lauri being developed.

And its not just Don and Rudy... look at the list of absolute best guards in the NBA (our biggest area of need). From players under 27 years old... there are 4 very good young(ish) guards picked in top 5.... Luka (#3), Jaylen (#3), Trae (#5) and Fox (#5)... but there are as many picked way outside of top 5 with Don (#13), SGA (#13), Haliburton (#12), DBook (#13).

I think most of the kids coming into NBA have much more upside than they ever present in their careers because they dont get into right situations. Top picks always get more opportunities because they end up in worse teams and their pedigree allows for more mistakes. But I think late lottery guys can also become top 20 if given equal opportunity.

Also I dont think we are "trying to find an all star better than Lauri". We are in a point where we are still trying to find out "how good Lauri really is". Getting into the playoffs would be the perfect way to see what he is made of.. and would give DA much more information about timelines and such. I dont see a reason why he couldnt be great in the playoffs... but then again you never know until he gets there.

You have passed judgement on the ceiling of Lauri and keep doubling down on that opinion. Most others in here have adjusted their assessments of him.
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Why would you cap the list at under 27? That makes no sense when we are talking about where you are most likely to snag a top player. In this case guards.

Bradley Beal- 3rd pick
Steph Curry - 7th pick
Harden- 3rd pick
Lillard- 6th pick
Irving- 1st pick
CP- 4th pick
Morant- 2nd pick
Garland- 4th pick
Westbrook- 4th pick
Rose- 1st pick
Wall- 1st pick
McCollum- 10th pick
Conley- 4th pick
Jrue- 17th pick
Jalen Brunson- 33rd pick
Herro- 13th pick
Lowry- 24th pick
Jamal Murray- 7th pick
Lamelo- 3rd pick
Dejounte Murray- 29th pick

No one is saying you can't get great players outside the top 10 but the earlier you pick the more options it gives you. In the end it still comes down to great talent evaluation though. There was a rumor a few months ago that if Ainge hadn't made the Kyrie trade he was dialed in on drafting SGA. It is hard to imagine just how great the celtics would have been with that trio. Also I think most of us aren't even talking about getting into the top 5 but rather getting into that top 8 or 10.
 
sip said:
Why would you cap the list at under 27? That makes no sense when we are talking about where you are most likely to snag a top player. In this case guards.

Bradley Beal- 3rd pick
Steph Curry - 7th pick
Harden- 3rd pick
Lillard- 6th pick
Irving- 1st pick
CP- 4th pick
Morant- 2nd pick
Garland- 4th pick
Westbrook- 4th pick
Rose- 1st pick
Wall- 1st pick
McCollum- 10th pick
Conley- 4th pick
Jrue- 17th pick
Jalen Brunson- 33rd pick
Herro- 13th pick
Lowry- 24th pick
Jamal Murray- 7th pick
Lamelo- 3rd pick
Dejounte Murray- 29th pick

No one is saying you can't get great players outside the top 10 but the earlier you pick the more options it gives you. In the end it still comes down to great talent evaluation though. There was a rumor a few months ago that if Ainge hadn't made the Kyrie trade he was dialed in on drafting SGA. It is hard to imagine just how great the celtics would have been with that trio. Also I think most of us aren't even talking about getting into the top 5 but rather getting into that top 8 or 10.
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I forgot Ja from my list... that was an honest blunder. But you mistake my whole post if you thought I was highlighting draft positions... the point was to highlight player development.

You call it "talent evaluation"... like it would be set in stone what kind of a career each player is gonna have. But its not, and it never has been. Lots of top picks might come in with the best tools but end up having unimpressive careers because they situation they are put into is bad, which just ends up with them developing bad habits or mental locks they never break. On the other hand, lots of late lotter picks seem to be doing well for their careers and one part of it is that the organisations who draft them are just simply in a better place.

Players are humans. They are affected by all the same basic psychological aspects as any of us. And being in a losing organisation to start your career isnt the best way to go about it.
 
HermanG said:
I forgot Ja from my list... that was an honest blunder. But you mistake my whole post if you thought I was highlighting draft positions... the point was to highlight player development.

You call it "talent evaluation"... like it would be set in stone what kind of a career each player is gonna have. But its not, and it never has been. Lots of top picks might come in with the best tools but end up having unimpressive careers because they situation they are put into is bad, which just ends up with them developing bad habits or mental locks they never break. On the other hand, lots of late lotter picks seem to be doing well for their careers and one part of it is that the organisations who draft them are just simply in a better place.

Players are humans. They are affected by all the same basic psychological aspects as any of us. And being in a losing organisation to start your career isnt the best way to go about it.
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There is no doubt that getting with the right organization and the right coach has a massive impact for a lot of these guys. Look no further than Lauri for the perfect example. Lauri showed a ton of potential his first couple years and then they completely changed his role and destroyed his development. If he would have been drafted by the mavs I feel pretty confident that he would already be a multiple time all star and viewed as a franchise type of player.
 
HermanG said:
And what # did we draft Donovan and Gobert at? FYI, we are gonna get higher picks than those 2 were selected with this year FOR SURE. The biggest thing with those 2 wasnt that we drafted them.... It was that we developed them to become the players they are. Much like we are seeing Lauri being developed.

And its not just Don and Rudy... look at the list of absolute best guards in the NBA (our biggest area of need). From players under 27 years old... there are 4 very good young(ish) guards picked in top 5.... Luka (#3), Jaylen (#3), Trae (#5) and Fox (#5)... but there are as many picked way outside of top 5 with Don (#13), SGA (#13), Haliburton (#12), DBook (#13).

I think most of the kids coming into NBA have much more upside than they ever present in their careers because they dont get into right situations. Top picks always get more opportunities because they end up in worse teams and their pedigree allows for more mistakes. But I think late lottery guys can also become top 20 if given equal opportunity.

Also I dont think we are "trying to find an all star better than Lauri". We are in a point where we are still trying to find out "how good Lauri really is". Getting into the playoffs would be the perfect way to see what he is made of.. and would give DA much more information about timelines and such. I dont see a reason why he couldnt be great in the playoffs... but then again you never know until he gets there.

You have passed judgement on the ceiling of Lauri and keep doubling down on that opinion. Most others in here have adjusted their assessments of him.
Click to expand...
I mean we don't have some magical development machine. Did we have a hand in developing those guys? sure... but we hit on those picks and ultimately those teams fell short in part because they did not have the HIGH end talent needed.

You missed Ja on your list of guys drafted high... I think Tatum also should be in there. But yeah I get that there are guys picked outside the top 5 that hit. The best player on a finals team is generally going to be a top 10 player or at least a top 10 playoff player... Booker and Jimmy Butler probably the floor of the type of guy you need. Its just that the hit rate in the top 5 is going to be higher than the hit rate in other places. 10-14 has actually been a decent range but top 5 is still better. Put it this way... you land pick #4... another team has #12 - How many picks will they have to add to get you to move back?

Lauri is awesome and yeah I will consider his ceiling... you don't know that I haven't adjusted my thoughts on him... I've gone from maybe he could be the 2nd best player on a title team to thinking he absolutely could... with the right #1 and supporting cast. Just because I am not out here declaring him to be Dirk doesn't mean I'm judging him in some harsh way. He's played like a top 20 player... I need a larger sample to say he is a top 15-20 player... Look at the finals teams again - how does Lauri stack up against playoff Jimmy, Tatum, Steph, Booker, Giannis, Lebron, AD - look at the supporting casts those teams had. The bar is ****ing high... which is why it is wild to think Lauri could be the #1 without at least someone on his level, but more likely above it. The reason its critical to hit on this year's picks is all the future picks we have won't turn into players until 3 seasons from now... they also need a year or two to season and get good... so maybe we turn a few of those picks into a player via trade, but good young players in their mid 20s don't hit the trade market all that often and it may cost a mega premium to get em. So you might use a few of those picks to get solid starter types... but your all-star level talent will almost certainly come through the draft... so your picks better be as good as possible to give yourself the best chance at success.
 
Back to the topic at hand. According to Fisher, Clarkson wants $20M per year deal.

sports.yahoo.com

Pacers’ accelerated timeline might have them looking to improve at trade deadline

It was assumed Indiana was willing to move assets such as Buddy Hield and Myles Turner in the offseason, but the Pacers’ 23-19 start has changed things.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

(Scroll down to Jazz section after Pacers debate.. albeit he does discuss Vando to Pacers as one option there)
 
Fisher said the desired price on an extension is 20M per year... of course if he tests the market and someone gets wild then that kinda sucks. I think we roll with JC and sign him to a 4/80M deal... maybe front load it so it doesn't age poorly if he declines. Also makes it easier to move in some cases.
 
HermanG said:
Back to the topic at hand. According to Fisher, Clarkson wants $20M per year deal.

sports.yahoo.com

Pacers’ accelerated timeline might have them looking to improve at trade deadline

It was assumed Indiana was willing to move assets such as Buddy Hield and Myles Turner in the offseason, but the Pacers’ 23-19 start has changed things.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

(Scroll down to Jazz section after Pacers debate.. albeit he does discuss Vando to Pacers as one option there)
Click to expand...

Will the Jazz be active in the market?

After Utah’s early season success, league personnel is expecting the Jazz to reintroduce another seller into the trade deadline. Utah has received plenty of incoming calls on both Malik Beasley and Jarred Vanderbilt, sources told Yahoo Sports, with the Jazz’s perceived valuation of a first-round pick for each player. Perhaps Vanderbilt is another young forward the Pacers deem has enough upside to grow alongside Turner.

The Jazz and Hawks have discussed a deal surrounding John Collins for Beasley and Vanderbilt, sources said, although Utah has lobbied Atlanta for a first-round pick in addition to Collins to complete that framework.

Jordan Clarkson is not considered a trade candidate at this time, as Utah would like to keep the veteran scorer beyond this season, sources said. The Jazz, though, are prohibited by CBA rules from offering Clarkson a contract extension in his desired range of $20 million of average annual value, and Clarkson appears set to reach unrestricted free agency.
Click to expand...

Some interesting stuff in here for sure.
 
HermanG said:
Back to the topic at hand. According to Fisher, Clarkson wants $20M per year deal.

sports.yahoo.com

Pacers’ accelerated timeline might have them looking to improve at trade deadline

It was assumed Indiana was willing to move assets such as Buddy Hield and Myles Turner in the offseason, but the Pacers’ 23-19 start has changed things.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

(Scroll down to Jazz section after Pacers debate.. albeit he does discuss Vando to Pacers as one option there)
Click to expand...

We can offer him pretty close to that. Is he really going to draw the line at an extra 10%? If he does he likely doesn’t want to re-sign here.
 
Regarding Collins I wouldn’t mind getting the lesser of ATL/SA 2026 1st or the pick they just got from SAC.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Fisher said the desired price on an extension is 20M per year... of course if he tests the market and someone gets wild then that kinda sucks. I think we roll with JC and sign him to a 4/80M deal... maybe front load it so it doesn't age poorly if he declines. Also makes it easier to move in some cases.
Click to expand...

We can offer 4/77.5 right now but that would include him opting in to his last year of his current deal I’m pretty sure.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Regarding Collins I wouldn’t mind getting the lesser of ATL/SA 2026 1st or the pick they just got from SAC.
Click to expand...
I think the gap there is gonna be too much though. I think we'd probably do that but I think they actually think they should get a pick in the deal.

Collins and Turner are going to finish their careers with Atlanta and Indiana... I'm convinced of it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think the gap there is gonna be too much though. I think we'd probably do that but I think they actually think they should get a pick in the deal.

Collins and Turner are going to finish their careers with Atlanta and Indiana... I'm convinced of it.
Click to expand...

I also thought of maybe trying to get a pick swap or something. Conflicting reports about what they want to get for Collins. They may want a pick and maybe both sides just agree to a 2 for 1 swap if we don’t find something better elsewhere.
 
Jingled said:
Yep. Monty's just making **** up again.
Click to expand...
Excuse me sir?!?!? Monty doesn't make it up... he hears it from an actual insider then adds the words "my sources" which is very vague. Who are his sources... this guy called Hoopshype.com
 
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