Clayton or Collier?

[sip]

If he’s this flawed and can’t break down defenses well yet, then I’m excited to see what he can do if he improves in this area. My guy averaged 6.3 assists in 25.9 minutes a game as a rookie despite an inability to shoot and garbage around him.

We were a crappy team that opposing teams didn't hardly game plan for. When opposing teams actually care it will be another story if he can't shoot. If he doesn't develop a jumper then we are looking at Elfrid Payton.

 

[sip]

Im simply saying that passing the ball to teammates could help teammates get more touches. And that he is a good and willing passer.

Statistically Collier doesn't dominate the ball (guys with more usage than him: key, sexton, Clarkson, svi, Brice, Lauri, Collins. Flip is about the exact same) and he doesn't take many shots (guys who shoot more than him: key, sexton, flip, Lauri, Brice, juzang, Collins, Clarkson, svi) and he gets lots of assists (guys with more assists than Collier: no one. Guys with higher assist % than collier: no one)

Look, you said yourself recently that you dropped Collier down in your rankings due to summer league. summer league is garbage basketball.

It's ok to hate on Collier but to take that hate and extrapolate it into believing that Collier isn't both a willing and good passer just ain't it.

I'm not a Collier fan but he gets dudes the ball in good scoring positions and imo that can be valuable to developing dudes.

If you want me to argue with you that his lack of shooting doesn't/won't hurt the offense then sorry bro, I won't do it. I absolutely do think his lack of shooting is a really big deal and why I don't think he will ever amount to anything in the NBA.

You basically just described Ricky Rubio and we all know how that went. When teams locked down he became a massive liability because teams would sag off him and the rest of the offense would become a grind.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You basically just described Ricky Rubio and we all know how that went. When teams locked down he became a massive liability because teams would sag off him and the rest of the offense would become a grind.

Not that you are wrong, but I do think that was more on Utah being committed to a Favors/Gobert front court during the Rubio era.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Not that you are wrong, but I do think that was more on Utah being committed to a Favors/Gobert front court during the Rubio era.

Maybe and I know this isn’t a perfect example but didn’t the Jazz have a similar issue with Brewer and we had Booz and Memo as our front court?

 

[fishonjazz]

You basically just described Ricky Rubio and we all know how that went. When teams locked down he became a massive liability because teams would sag off him and the rest of the offense would become a grind.

Ya we aren't trying to win this season imo. We are trying to develop young players though. My post was about how having a guy who like to pass and is good at passing might help the other players on our team with development.

Also, you 100% definitely didn't read the last couple of sentences of my post:

"If you want me to argue with you that his lack of shooting doesn't/won't hurt the offense then sorry bro, I won't do it. I absolutely do think his lack of shooting is a really big deal and why I don't think he will ever amount to anything in the NBA."

FWIW I voted Clayton in the poll

 

[jazznik]

You basically just described Ricky Rubio and we all know how that went. When teams locked down he became a massive liability because teams would sag off him and the rest of the offense would become a grind.

I disagree. Rubio had his own warts but he was a 34% 3PT and 80% FT shooter in his rookie year. And he was a much better passer as well (>8 APG on a team with many capable passers).

 

[slc]

I disagree. Rubio had his own warts but he was a 34% 3PT and 80% FT shooter in his rookie year. And he was a much better passer as well (>8 APG on a team with many capable passers).

I think it was a big mistake when Jazz got rid of Rubio
Jazz were better with him and team had very good chemistry despite his shooting
He was a very good shooter at times

 

[efukillar]

Collier was the main handler in the second half of last season. Key was pushed out by Collier and played as a shooting guard and bench ace. I hope WCJ becomes a good player, but I can't imagine Collier not being in the starting lineup next season. WCJ could be the starting shooting guard, but Collier is the main handler. It could change over time, but I think I'm right at the start of the season.

 

[framer]

What if I told you that the dude picked at the *** end of probably the worst draft in a decade was never intended to be a second year starter and any juice we get out of him in that direction is an immense positive?

Collier is a project, and a project that broke John Stockton's rookie assist numbers. He didn't fix all of his shooting woes over his first offseason. He will still be a project next year too.

Niether him or Clayton Jr. will be the starting pg in 2026-2027.

 

[JazzFever]

I don’t get it.

 

[fishonjazz]

What if I told you that the dude picked at the *** end of probably the worst draft in a decade was never intended to be a second year starter and any juice we get out of him in that direction is an immense positive?

Collier is a project, and a project that broke John Stockton's rookie assist numbers. He didn't fix all of his shooting woes over his first offseason. He will still be a project next year too.

Niether him or Clayton Jr. will be the starting pg in 2026-2027.

Agreed.

 

[bigmike]

What if I told you that the dude picked at the *** end of probably the worst draft in a decade was never intended to be a second year starter and any juice we get out of him in that direction is an immense positive?

Collier is a project, and a project that broke John Stockton's rookie assist numbers. He didn't fix all of his shooting woes over his first offseason. He will still be a project next year too.

Niether him or Clayton Jr. will be the starting pg in 2026-2027.

Agree on Collier. Not sure on Walt. But if WCJ comes off the bench in ~2026-2028 that's exciting since it means we probably have a PG who can really go.