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Collin Sexton SZN

Eddie Zero said:
I want to see him be less concerned with ball movement, less concerned with shot selection and efficiency, and mostly completely involved in every selfish play that exists.
Every loss they have had without Mike in the line up he was the opposite. He was never why they lost those games, his presence had little to do with it, outside of lack of trust from others or more common a lack of chemistry. I think he was highly efficient, highly concerned with ball movement, and completely unselfish and was playing winning ball. But the haters gonna hate
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There are no Sexton haters here.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Dude said Sexton has been playing "OK" lmao.
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Wow, this escalated quickly into a full-on Sexton lovefest. All shades of gray have apparently disappeared.

Listen, I know the guy is incredibly easy to cheer for. He's an entertaining, tryhard jitterbug who scores among the big trees, screams a lot, slaps the floor and bangs his chest. I get it. NBA fans generally ADORE these dudes. What's more, Collin is apparently the nicest person off the court. Just a likeable character overall.

As I said just the other day, I've eaten some crow on him lately... I'm certainly no Sexton hater. He's obviously made some strides as a starter and is furiously trying to get better still.

But he's still not an NBA point guard. That's my main problem with people elevating him to the level of Conley. Sexton is a scorer and he still looks for his own shot or drive first. He can't dictate the tempo of an offense, he has major trouble getting the team into sets, he can't make entry passes. These should all be basic skills for a playmaker in this league. The less said about his defense at the point of attack, the better.

He's playing better - and there have been games where he's played extremely well - but to me he remains a bench guy. If he can take what he learned during this stint as a starting PG and apply that to more of a combo guard role, he might carve himself a real future with this team.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
But he's still not an NBA point guard. That's my main problem with people elevating him to the level of Conley. Sexton is a scorer and he still looks for his own shot or drive first. He can't dictate the tempo of an offense, he has major trouble getting the team into sets, he can't make entry passes. These should all be basic skills for a playmaker in this league. The less said about his defense at the point of attack, the better.
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Why does he have to be an NBA point guard (whatever the hell that is these days)? I also find it weird that will all of his deficiencies that we have a net pint diff of +14.3 per 100 possessions when he plays with the starters vs. a +2.9 when replaced by Mike. Not saying he is better at playing winning basketball than Mike... but it seems his many issues are not holding anyone back and maybe some of the things he does well might actually be helping them.

Starter/bench whatevs... he can be part of a really good guard rotation and play 30ish minutes a night. Fit is the biggest issue but I thought JC and Sexton would be a terrible fit and its worked out thus far.
 
Closing games imo is the biggest challenge for Sexton... having a more cerebral player in the last 5 or so minutes of a game is helpful. That said he has had a couple good moments closing games and he may be able to improve.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Why does he have to be an NBA point guard (whatever the hell that is these days)? I also find it weird that will all of his deficiencies that we have a net pint diff of +14.3 per 100 possessions when he plays with the starters vs. a +2.9 when replaced by Mike. Not saying he is better at playing winning basketball than Mike... but it seems his many issues are not holding anyone back and maybe some of the things he does well might actually be helping them.

Starter/bench whatevs... he can be part of a really good guard rotation and play 30ish minutes a night. Fit is the biggest issue but I thought JC and Sexton would be a terrible fit and its worked out thus far.
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This.

The idea of an NBA "point guard", and all that entails, died years ago, IMO.
 
Anyone notice how much better the Nets started to look after Royce O'Neale and Ben Simmons started to "play the point" (from point or from wing) while Kyrie was just left to do what Kyrie does.

Durant does cuts and picks when either one of those two has the ball and essentially takes a break and leans on his knees when Kyrie has it.

A bit exaggarated maybe, but not too far.
 
Bodhi said:
This.

The idea of an NBA "point guard", and all that entails, died years ago, IMO.
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I don't care what you call it, but you have to have a guy who can control the pace, direct guys to their spots if necessary, and see the "bigger picture". For most teams that's the lead/point guard, but it can also be a center like Jokic.

We have nobody like that when Conley is out.
 
HermanG said:
How is Sexton your equivalent to Mitchell when JC looks 5x more like him driving in and taking contested shots? You are barking at the wrong tree.

Sexton leads the two in following stats for the past 9:
FG%, 3P%, FT%, eFG%, TS%, AST, AST/TO ratio, PIE

JC leads in rebounding and points (and turnovers), but in points he leads by 6.8 with 7.9 more attempts per game. JC also leads in freethrows gained, but only by 1 per game despite his much larger shoot and drive volumes.

I challenge you to find a play by Sexton that looks like this:

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.
www.nba.com www.nba.com

Both Vando and Beasley even had their hands up. Clarkson looked directly at Vando and decided not to pass.

Or this where he gets the bucket due to Blazers 0% effort.. but notice JC had literally everyone open and drove it into 3 guys.

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
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I have no idea how JC also not being a great passer relates to Sexton, but ok. You wont get any arguments from me about how JC isnt a PG.
 
HermanG said:
During that 9 game stretch:

Beasley 32.6% at 9.9 3PA per game
JC 28.8% at 7.3 3PA
So 17.2 attempts per game with 30.8% between the two

I'm sure their poor shooting form is Sextons fault.
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Partially, yes.

I mean, overall I would say it isnt, but it's more the Jazz's fault for not having a reliable backup PG. But if you think Sexton is a PG, then it is related to him.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Listen, I know the guy is incredibly easy to cheer for. He's an entertaining, tryhard jitterbug who scores among the big trees, screams a lot, slaps the floor and bangs his chest. I get it.
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This is why you get labled a hater. Your sentence here makes it seem as if he is a guy with little talent who just tries really hard and does things like slapping the floor and banging his chest.
Yet you leave out the fact that he is an efficient scorer, gets to the line, puts pressure on the defense, sets up his teammates better than anyone currently on the team and playing in the games, is a good defender, and just keeps getting better and better. He shoots well from 3, he shoots well from midrange, he excels at getting all the way to the rim, he gets to the line and he has been leading the team in assists since becoming the starter. What more do you want from him? You want him be perfect apparently.
Well i think we should nitpick conleys game more. He is way to easy to score on/over, he isn't aggressive or assertive enough often times, he doesn't play with enough emotion or fire or energy, he gets injured too much.
I mean we can play this game of picking apart each and every guy on the roster. That would be stupid though.
 
fishonjazz said:
This is why you get labled a hater. Your sentence here makes it seem as if he is a guy with little talent who just tries really hard and does things like slapping the floor and banging his chest.
Yet you leave out the fact that he is an efficient scorer, gets to the line, puts pressure on the defense, sets up his teammates better than anyone currently on the team and playing in the games, is a good defender, and just keeps getting better and better. He shoots well from 3, he shoots well from midrange, he excels at getting all the way to the rim, he gets to the line and he has been leading the team in assists since becoming the starter. What more do you want from him? You want him be perfect apparently.
Well i think we should nitpick conleys game more. He is way to easy to score on/over, he isn't aggressive or assertive enough often times, he doesn't play with enough emotion or fire or energy, he gets injured too much.
I mean we can play this game of picking apart each and every guy on the roster. That would be stupid though.
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Uhh, why is picking apart every guy on the roster stupid exactly? That's called evaluations and is extremely important.
 
One Brow said:
Not for us, it isn't. @fishonjazz is reacting like a fan instead of pretending to be a Jazz executive. Pretending we're executives is a big game.
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Fair. But this is a fan forum and it's going to attract more of the arm chair executive types, especially in 2022 where there are more casual internet spaces for fans to just be fans.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
I don't care what you call it, but you have to have a guy who can control the pace, direct guys to their spots if necessary, and see the "bigger picture". For most teams that's the lead/point guard, but it can also be a center like Jokic.

We have nobody like that when Conley is out.
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I agree you need some organizers or guys that you can throw the ball to that understand time score gameflow etc... but its not really coming from point guards all that much these days. Boston, Milwaukee, Miami it comes from wings... Denver, GS (steph is the point guard but Dray is the organizer setup man) it comes from bigs.

There are some pgs out there that do what Mike does but many successful teams are getting it elsewhere.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I agree you need some organizers or guys that you can throw the ball to that understand time score gameflow etc... but its not really coming from point guards all that much these days. Boston, Milwaukee, Miami it comes from wings... Denver, GS (steph is the point guard but Dray is the organizer setup man) it comes from bigs.

There are some pgs out there that do what Mike does but many successful teams are getting it elsewhere.
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Boston got utterly ****ed with turnovers in the Finals due to the lack of strong guard play and they went out and got Brogdon because of it.

Not sure what you are saying with Milwaukee. They got Jrue Holiday, he isnt a Point God, but by modern standards he is a good game managing guard.

Miami has Lowry, so I still dont get what you are saying there.

Steph is still a very strong PG who can handle and set people up. He does less than he could on that end by choice, not through limitations. Still has strong assist to turnover ratios and generally does the right thing on the court at all times combined with strong ball-handling (which is the essence of what we are now saying when it comes to PG play, not purely assist, but do you make the right decisions on the court while being a strong ball-handler)

Denver really the only team without a strong PG outside of Boston, and they play a completely different style than most teams.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Boston got utterly ****ed with turnovers in the Finals due to the lack of strong guard play and they went out and got Brogdon because of it.

Not sure what you are saying with Milwaukee. They got Jrue Holiday, he isnt a Point God, but by modern standards he is a good game managing guard.

Miami has Lowry, so I still dont get what you are saying there.

Steph is still a very strong PG who can handle and set people up. He does less than he could on that end by choice, not through limitations. Still has strong assist to turnover ratios and generally does the right thing on the court at all times combined with strong ball-handling (which is the essence of what we are now saying when it comes to PG play, not purely assist, but do you make the right decisions on the court while being a strong ball-handler)

Denver really the only team without a strong PG outside of Boston, and they play a completely different style than most teams.
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Not just this year or last year those teams get their playmaking in a variety of ways. Milwaukee goes through Middleton and Giannis... Miami goes through Jimmy... Boston won't be putting the ball in Brogdon's hands... it will go through Tatum, Brown, and Smart.

Steph does his fair share of playmaking but the organizer decision making duties are shared with Green for sure.

You can get the playmaking on the wing or from non-pg positions. If you get a point god type then by all means move one of those dudes (sexton/JC). The other takes a back seat.
 
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