Compelling Pro Life Argument

[One Brow]

Who or what is using the uterus without the woman's consent?

In the case of a woman wanting an abortion, the fetus inside of the uterus.

Side question, do you think a fetus is a human being, regardless of legality or policy? When do you personally believe life, human life with rights and worth protecting, begins? Again, without commenting in this context on the women's rights, since it is entirely possible to believe that life begins at conception but that a right to an abortion outweighs that belief.

Human life (as separated from other types of ape life) began a few million years ago, and has been passed along continuously. The sperm and the egg were alive before conception. I think the zygote has rights at the moment of conception, but not rights that supersede the rights of the woman in whom the zygote is created (assuming the zygote is created there), just like any other person.

 

[fishonjazz]

LOL. No. Not a strawman. Potential is meaningless. Any atom in the universe has the potential to be part of anything. Aliveness is irrelevant. Status as a human is not.

You see tomato's (or any atom in the universe) and sperm as having the same or at least similar effect to human life.
I see them as very different in relation to human life.
I'm fine simply agreeing to disagree on this one.

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[silesian]

China isn't socialist.

HaHa. I'll let my Chinese friends know this. They will be very surprised to learn this fact.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Shouldn't we as a society behave so that we show as directly as possible that such kind of behavior is not OK? Of course, not killing anybody, but a la being vocal saying "you are kind of funny guy" for those who go to vacation in Pattaya to have fun with underage girls and boys; while being a car salesman - not selling a supercar to somebody who comes to a dealership with her 14 year old "wife" etc. Of course, as long as money does not have a smell of a fart, then we can only dream about it.
Also, i guess that most of those who have a belief that women must do what they want while in marriage - they were also raised partially by women. I wonder - at what age they teach to children that "women are not as superior as men" in Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc?

Social norms vary considerably throughout the world viz relations between sexes, and even vary considerably within countries. Most countries outside the West have conservative/traditional norms related to relationships among sexes and gender roles. It is more common than less common that these gender norms impose very strict rules governing women's roles and serve to disempower them viz their relationships with men and society in general. Such norms, moreover, are inculcated from birth.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I think he already answered your question a while back with something about life beginning even before conception by way of sperm being life and eggs as well?

Something to that effect.

So essentially you are aborting some form of human life with every act of masturbation lol.
Murderers all of us!

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Wouldn't that make the Porn industry history's greatest facilitator of mass murder?

 

[LogGrad98]

In the case of a woman wanting an abortion, the fetus inside of the uterus.



Human life (as separated from other types of ape life) began a few million years ago, and has been passed along continuously. The sperm and the egg were alive before conception. I think the zygote has rights at the moment of conception, but not rights that supersede the rights of the woman in whom the zygote is created (assuming the zygote is created there), just like any other person.

Interesting. I think, considering that the actions of the woman directly resulted in placing the fetus in her womb against its will, would imply consent to use the womb. She knew what the outcome could be, engaged in the behavior anyway, and created the fetus without its consent, knowing that it would end up in her uterus. I think you could argue that is implied consent, if not explicit consent outright.

On the 2nd part why do the woman's rights, who had a choice in the matter (to have sex or not) supercede the rights of the infant who had no say in the matter, was forced into existence again its will.

Could that be viewed as existential rape?

 

[silesian]

I wouldn't call this socialism. Not every form of gov involvement in economy and other aspects of life equates to some form of socialism. Socialism is a word that if oft-used and oft-used incorrectly. Expect a lot of this to happen in next election cycle in which Repub's strategy is taking shape to try to paint Dems as socialism with AOC being one of their primary boogeymen for this purpose. I'm guessing, in 90%+ of the time, they'll use the term improperly.

Don't you find it ironic that the people bitch about how socialism is the central government controlling the means of production yet are fine giving the government control over intimate and personal matters?

 

[Ron Mexico]

This thread has taught me that more people should have been aborted.

I the abortions should be allowed until kids turn 18 and get the same rights as other adults.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Don't you find it ironic that the people bitch about how socialism is the central government controlling the means of production yet are fine giving the government control over intimate and personal matters?

Yes, it's inconsistent, but one consistent attribute of humans is that we are inconsistent. We tend to argue, not based on firm principle, but on what is convenient for us in the moment. Invoking principles when convenient and abandoning them when inconvenient. Neither side is exempt, most all of us do it. Hypocrisy of the Right is more glaring at the moment since it has abandoned long-voiced principles in its all-out pursuit for power and to insert their collective heads up Trump's arse.

 

[silesian]

Yes, it's inconsistent, but one consistent attribute of humans is that we are inconsistent. We tend to argue, not based on firm principle, but on what is convenient for us in the moment. Invoking principles when convenient and abandoning them when inconvenient. Neither side is exempt, most all of us do it. Hypocrisy of the Right is more glaring at the moment since it has abandoned long-voiced principles in its all-out pursuit for power and to insert their collective heads up Trump's arse.

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed.

I'm fiscally conservative but I have given up on the Republican party. Voter suppression, condoned bigotry, xenophobia. The problem is that I have to hold my nose and vote Democratic, despite huge policy disagreements. But I would not be able to live with myself and vote for the compulsively lying narcissist. i have many business executive friends who tell me they know he is totally amoral, but they vote for their economic interests. Despite my juicy tax break that added to my family wealth, I just can't do it. Those who support him will be remembered in history right alongside the pro McCarthy wing.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed.

I'm fiscally conservative but I have given up on the Republican party. Voter suppression, condoned bigotry, xenophobia. The problem is that I have to hold my nose and vote Democratic, despite huge policy disagreements. But I would not be able to live with myself and vote for the compulsively lying narcissist. i have many business executive friends who tell me they know he is totally amoral, but they vote for their economic interests. Despite my juicy tax break that added to my family wealth, I just can't do it. Those who support him will be remembered in history right alongside the pro McCarthy wing.

The thing about Trump that I find so interesting is the lack of self-awareness about how history is likely to judge the Trump Administration and those who enabled him. He, and his supporters, are on the wrong side of history, and as the nation regains its collective mind and time passes and the nation is able to put the past into perspective, the Trump Admin will not be recalled as, to put it finely, a high point in US history. He'll be keeping company with, among others, Nixon & Harding as bad/corrupt presidents. I find it so interesting how so few people exhibit any self-awareness about this or exhibit any outward desire to put themselves, and their legacies, on the right side of history.

 

[Stoked]

The thing about Trump that I find so interesting is the lack of self-awareness about how history is likely to judge the Trump Administration and those who enabled him. He, and his supporters, are on the wrong side of history, and as the nation regains its collective mind and time passes and the nation is able to put the past into perspective, the Trump Admin will not be recalled as, to put it finely, a high point in US history. He'll be keeping company with, among others, Nixon & Harding as bad/corrupt presidents. I find it so interesting how so few people exhibit any self-awareness about this or exhibit any outward desire to put themselves, and their legacies, on the right side of history.

Define “regains it’s collective mind”. What I’m seeing from the only other major party is a swing towards the extreme in their own party. Now clearly I’m not trying to compare their speech to Trumps. They are not him that way, thank god. But the policy positions have taken a strong left swing.

I don’t see any return to sanity. I see an aggressive reaction.