Conley For Horford Discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

I want to see DM and Ingles as the primary playmakers. We don't need a Conley. I want to see a long defensive-minded combo guard to run with DM, and that's about it.

It was discussed at length during the season but Joe is also good at getting Rudy involved. We seemed to lose Joe when he played with Mike and coming off the bench meant he didn’t have a pick and roll partner. i wish Joe was 5 years younger so he could pair with DM short and long term because it’s pretty ideal.

 

[MVP]

If you don't think Boston Al Horford was good then we shouldn't even talk... put me on ignore... he anchored one of the best defenses in the league there. I'm sorry he got one less rebound a game... he must have really fallen off a cliff.

He was good after he moved there and then every year turned worse and worse and left Boston as mediocre, massively overpaid player. Stop living n the past. Today's Horford is terrible ( for what his contract is)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He was good after he moved there and then every year turned worse and worse and left Boston as mediocre, massively overpaid player. Stop living n the past. Today's Horford is terrible ( for what his contract is)

I realize his contract is awful... that's why you get the other stuff in the trade. The other stuff is more important than Al. Al at very least can be the premium backup center that some are willing to spend the MLE on... he'd still have some use.

 

[LoPo]

Just throwing this out here for fun since it involves Horford and Conley (and since I consider Horford a full-time C these days, I can't really talk myself into taking him in as a Gobert backup/questionable PF). It's another trade idea that will (and should) never happen, though it does perhaps seem to solve several issues that are out there. I tweaked an idea on the internet that wasn't legal until it worked, it and seems to have some potential positives for each team.

View attachment 9833

In case there are problems with the image:
Utah out: Gobert, Conley, Bogey, Davis
Utah in: Hayward, Horford, B. Simmons, Theis

Philly out: Horford, Simmons, Mike Scott, Zhaire Smith
Philly in: Conley, Bogey, Robert Williams (and would probably need some draft considerations)

Boston out: Hayward, R. Williams, Theis
Boston in: Gobert, Ed Davis, Zhaire Smith, Mike Scott (the last 3 for salary purposes to make the trade legal, though Scott is at least mildly useful)

Advantages for Utah:
Off of Conley contract; let someone else take the Gobert extension risk; lose the best player, but get 2nd & 3rd best players back; all four are useful pieces (each decent to very good defenders if utilized properly); 8 man rotation would be: DM, Hayward, Simmons, Ingles, Horford, O'Neale, Theis, Clarkson (hopefully), before getting to Niang, Bradley, Morgan, Oni, etc.; (of course we'd also have the all-bitterness/jealousy team by adding Hayward and Simmons)

Advantages for Philly:
Fixes their books; allow for a path to build smartly around Embiid; seems to give a starting 5 that makes pretty good sense together: Embiid, Tobias, Bogey, Richardson, Conley

Advantages for Boston:
Gets best player in deal; eliminates Hayward's positional redundancy in the process; saves a couple million (and I think should be able to accommodate Gobert raise); Likely starting 5 seems great: Gobert, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba

Generally I think the trade is interesting because it allows all three teams to stay below the tax this coming year (and I think it offers a path for all to stay there in the future, if maybe a little trickier); it also allows for a better fit for the three players who were being underutilized because of the original team's makeup: Hayward, Horford, Conley (not sure if the troubles maximizing Simmons has been totally solved, but maybe it's also better?)

I'll leave the disadvantages (many of which I'm sure I haven't thought of yet) to anyone who wants to take a crack at them.

Interesting. Way too many players but I like where your head is at.

If Rudy is not staying long term (contract or choice), I think the following makes the most sense:

Philly gets Gordon
Celtics get Rudy
Jazz get Horford and assets

Jaylen Brown would be ideal, but at the very least picks, rookie scale players, etc. We can add Davis and Bradley to match salaries, but the bulk of the trade would be those 3 with Utah getting all the added assets.

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[idiot]

Interesting. Way too many players but I like where your head is at.

If Rudy is not staying long term (contract or choice), I think the following makes the most sense:

Philly gets Gordon
Celtics get Rudy
Jazz get Horford and assets

Jaylen Brown would be ideal, but at the very least picks, rookie scale players, etc. We can add Davis and Bradley to match salaries, but the bulk of the trade would be those 3 with Utah getting all the added assets.

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I'm glad to get the LoPo seal of approval on this. I figured you might appreciate it even if others don't.

Can't say I'm with you on your counter proposal, though. No way am I trading Gobert when the main package back is Horford (Horford with his contract is a net neutral at best). There is no chance that Boston would let Brown go if they traded Hayward, and I'm not eager to get Boston/Philly's pupu platter of middling picks and marginally useful rookie-scale players in trying to replace Gobert.

 

[LoPo]

I'm glad to get the LoPo seal of approval on this. I figured you might appreciate it even if others don't.

Can't say I'm with you on your counter proposal, though. No way am I trading Gobert when the main package back is Horford (Horford with his contract is a net neutral at best). There is no chance that Boston would let Brown go if they traded Hayward, and I'm not eager to get Boston/Philly's pupu platter of middling picks and marginally useful rookie-scale players in trying to replace Gobert.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask for Brown if Boston is getting Rudy. Will they do it? Doubtful but you never know.

I don't think we would take back Hayward so trading Conley AND Rudy within these 4 teams is really complicated. We would have to take back Tobias AND Horford which is more than I think we would do. But this works...

Boston gets Rudy
Philly gets Conley and Hayward
Utah gets Tobias, Horford and assets



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[Cptgrnlngs22]

I don't think its unreasonable to ask for Brown if Boston is getting Rudy. Will they do it? Doubtful but you never know.

I don't think we would take back Hayward so trading Conley AND Rudy within these 4 teams is really complicated. We would have to take back Tobias AND Horford which is more than I think we would do. But this works...

Boston gets Rudy
Philly gets Conley and Hayward
Utah gets Tobias, Horford and assets



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If we are making a trade with Boston for Rudy you don’t take back anything less than brown. They are greedy. They already got 5 good players at the 1-4. They can give up one from their middle tier for a game changing center or they can kick rocks. I don’t want to trade gobert though. Every top tier team has good big guys. I think gobert is essential to a chip if we get there. I think Mitchell needs to run point and we need K Dunn to pair with him as his defensive counterpart. Conley does not fit and may be our last trade chip before extensions set in so I think the jazz have to at least see if they can get a big wing for him. We don’t need him off the bench if we keep JC and get a KDunn. I like the move for porter but his injuries are sketch other than that NY and Philly may be the only trade partners available. If porter could come back and play like he did in Washington and KDunn takes another step forward we would have three elite defenders in Gobert OP and KDunn

Mitchell
Dunn
Porter
Bogdonavic
Gobert

Clarkson
O’Neal
Ingles
?????

That team is much more balanced and far more defensively minded than the current. Maybe fill in the ??? With an Alex Len or Nerlens Noel or J okafer ... idk would love to pair Baynes with Joe off the bench but he will likely get 5+ on the market and I think a good defensive guard that is young and athletic like Dunn is more important to spend money on than a backup big....sorry Favs....


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[idiot]

I don't think its unreasonable to ask for Brown if Boston is getting Rudy. Will they do it? Doubtful but you never know.

I don't think we would take back Hayward so trading Conley AND Rudy within these 4 teams is really complicated. We would have to take back Tobias AND Horford which is more than I think we would do. But this works...

Boston gets Rudy
Philly gets Conley and Hayward
Utah gets Tobias, Horford and assets



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I'm not giving up Rudy and taking back two of the five worst contracts in the league just to get rid of Conley (I still kind of like Conley, truth be told).

As for my original proposal, I know getting Hayward back would never fly. And the fanbase might never like Ben Simmons. And Philly would never consider the trade (even if they should to help reset things before it's too late in Embiid's career.) It's a pie-in-the sky proposal that I just had fun with because I like how (in theory) how it deals with currently poorly fitting squads and difficult financial situations.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

Just curious... I was reading an old article where tony Jones highlights what a great fit Tobias Harris would be with the jazz alongside Mitchell and gobert and that if the sixers weren’t going to offer him the five year max the jazz would certainly offer him the max. Now I know he would take us well into the luxury but what was the jazz plan if they had got him? Was it no bogie? Just wondering if the jazz get the chance to snag the guy they wanted with assets included and either Milton or thybulle at their price tag makes up a bit for the overlay cause they are both on three year deals for about 2 mil each. Jazz can take a mulligan on Conley, why wouldn’t they and figure out the numbers later? Just a thought.


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[Handlogten's Heros]

Just curious... I was reading an old article where tony Jones highlights what a great fit Tobias Harris would be with the jazz alongside Mitchell and gobert and that if the sixers weren’t going to offer him the five year max the jazz would certainly offer him the max. Now I know he would take us well into the luxury but what was the jazz plan if they had got him? Was it no bogie? Just wondering if the jazz get the chance to snag the guy they wanted with assets included and either Milton or thybulle at their price tag makes up a bit for the overlay cause they are both on three year deals for about 2 mil each. Jazz can take a mulligan on Conley, why wouldn’t they and figure out the numbers later? Just a thought.


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There is some truth to this but the issue is that Tobias is likely closer to the player he’s been in Philly than the player he was in LA. Still if you could get a bunch of **** for Mike for Tobias and then you are able to flip Bojan for stuff and some expirings the. You’d have some **** and some stuff and Tobias/DM/Rudy and maybe Tobias becomes the player he was before Philly.

I just get the feeling DL thinks we are closer than we really are and will make small changes without considering anything big.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just curious... I was reading an old article where tony Jones highlights what a great fit Tobias Harris would be with the jazz alongside Mitchell and gobert and that if the sixers weren’t going to offer him the five year max the jazz would certainly offer him the max. Now I know he would take us well into the luxury but what was the jazz plan if they had got him? Was it no bogie? Just wondering if the jazz get the chance to snag the guy they wanted with assets included and either Milton or thybulle at their price tag makes up a bit for the overlay cause they are both on three year deals for about 2 mil each. Jazz can take a mulligan on Conley, why wouldn’t they and figure out the numbers later? Just a thought.


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I also think that while Tobias’ contract is onerous... they will be less likely to give assets to get off of it because at least he fits.

 

[NAOS]

I’d rather roll with Bojan than Tobias

 

[LoPo]

If we are making a trade with Boston for Rudy you don’t take back anything less than brown. They are greedy. They already got 5 good players at the 1-4. They can give up one from their middle tier for a game changing center or they can kick rocks. I don’t want to trade gobert though. Every top tier team has good big guys. I think gobert is essential to a chip if we get there.


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I would take Jaylen Brown over Rudy and it's not close for me. With the way he plays coupled with his athleticism, Jaylen Brown has another 10 quality years in the NBA. He can guard 1 thru 4. He can score the ball at every level. He's unselfish.

If we have to take back a terrible contract in Horford in order to get Brown, I do it. Brown next to Donovan is absolutely perfect. He's about as close as we can get in the current game to Scottie Pippen other than Kawhi.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’d rather roll with Bojan than Tobias

Me too... I think we are all just spitballing on a very hopeless subject unfortunately. Hit a home run on a pick this year or find the next Christian Wood or else we are just going to be a middle tier playoff team for the next 3-4 years. Use your exceptions to do some window dressing if you want I guess.

 

[LoPo]

Me too... I think we are all just spitballing on a very hopeless subject unfortunately. Hit a home run on a pick this year or find the next Christian Wood or else we are just going to be a middle tier playoff team for the next 3-4 years. Use your exceptions to do some window dressing if you want I guess.

I would take Bojan over Tobias too. I like his contract and fit better.

Now I would take Tobias over Conley. Sure it's a bad contract, but we need good players when we can get them. The salary issues are legitimate for 2021-22 and beyond, but we work through those when we get there. If we proposed this idea to Philly, I would expect some sort of assets in return if Philly is selling. We would be buying low. Maybe we can get some minor picks as part of the deal and make them take Ed Davis too.

Conley and Ed Davis ($40 million) for Tobias ($33.5), #49 and Philly's protected 2021 1st?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I would take Bojan over Tobias too. I like his contract and fit better.

Now I would take Tobias over Conley. Sure it's a bad contract, but we need good players when we can get them. The salary issues are legitimate for 2021-22 and beyond, but we work through those when we get there. If we proposed this idea to Philly, I would expect some sort of assets in return if Philly is selling. We would be buying low. Maybe we can get some minor picks as part of the deal and make them take Ed Davis too.

Conley and Ed Davis ($40 million) for Tobias ($33.5), #49 and Philly's protected 2021 1st?

I’d need more. They’d give more I think if they did like a Horford for Hield swap.

I do agree with the general sentiment of figuring out the salary crunch later. We shouldn’t be irresponsible but sometimes I feel like we’ve kept the powder dry thinking when you sign or trade for a player they are there forever and you will have to re-sign all your own players. The core 4 years where we didn’t sign anyone because of someday having to pay the young guys was dumb at the time and is high comedy now.

 

[NAOS]

I’d need more. They’d give more I think if they did like a Horford for Hield swap.

I do agree with the general sentiment of figuring out the salary crunch later. We shouldn’t be irresponsible but sometimes I feel like we’ve kept the powder dry thinking when you sign or trade for a player they are there forever and you will have to re-sign all your own players. The core 4 years where we didn’t sign anyone because of someday having to pay the young guys was dumb at the time and is high comedy now.

Core44eva

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

In the good fashion of spitballing. Given the jazz most likely stick with Conley this season (meaning they likely want to resign him to a new contract and hopefully with intentions of coming off the bench) then maybe the jazz can do a sign and trade with JC if he is wanting to go to LA or Miami? Would either LA team offer something worthwhile to get JC for slightly more than their MLE?


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[Handlogten's Heros]

In the good fashion of spitballing. Given the jazz most likely stick with Conley this season (meaning they likely want to resign him to a new contract and hopefully with intentions of coming off the bench) then maybe the jazz can do a sign and trade with JC if he is wanting to go to LA or Miami? Would either LA team offer something worthwhile to get JC for slightly more than their MLE?


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I don’t think there is anything good we could get in a sign and trade. I also don’t think we extend Conley. Part of the reason we got him is his deal expires when DMs kicks in.