Could you win with Lauri and Key being your closers?

[MTS]

Last time I felt this good about having players with the ability to close games was when we had this guy:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1JvL0VtoG0

 

[KqWIN]

Thats a rather dumb take. Pressure affects performance and some individuals deal with it better than others. Its not a secret science of any kind.

The human element should never be discounted.

And if that were true, you still couldn't prove it based on the SSS. What I'm really saying is the clutch stats are unreliable and wouldn't build my franchise around it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I dont know about the MVP (especially with his injury) but in my mind he is definitely the best player in the world.

However its worth nothing that he has been the best player for quite a while, but this is the Nuggets playoff resume with Jokic:
2nd round exit
conference finals loss
2nd round exit
1st round exit
Championship
2nd round exit
2nd round exit

So he isnt unbeatable. Far from it.

No one said unbeatable. As an individual player he is superhuman in his BBIQ and skill set, that is the point. And never were any of those squads considered the best in the league, in fact they have always been a rag-tag kind of assortment with injury issues and weaker role players. Kind of like Jordan before Pippen got there. Jordan was easily the best player in the world nearly from the day he entered the league, but with a string of playoff exits before they got the right squad and coach around him. Imagine what that could be if the Nuggets could find the Pippen and Jackson to Jokic's Jordan. Yikes.

 

[KqWIN]

Our defense in the clutch has been better than our offense, which brings up another reason why I hesitate to rely on clutch stats much. We only focus on offense and the theatrical ending.

 

[LogGrad98]

Last time I felt this good about having players with the ability to close games was when we had this guy:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1JvL0VtoG0

I never get tired of saying it, but I was at the game. It was spectacular. Lost Gobert like 3 minutes in or something, thought there was no way, then this. One of the best games to be at live. Unbelievable the way the crowd reacted. Loved it!!

 

[HermanG]

And if that were true, you still couldn't prove it based on the SSS. What I'm really saying is the clutch stats are unreliable and wouldn't build my franchise around it.

The OP referenced stats, record, strength of opponents and eyeball test. All supporting the case that we got two good-to-great closers.

Like sure, the sample may be small. And the sample doesnt include playoff series. But it never will contain the latter if we dont first build up to get there.

Your style is to circle around and throw shade at stuff without committing to any takes. Tell me then what is the thing you build your franchise around, if not "having two players who can win you close basketball games"?

 

[KqWIN]

The OP referenced stats, record, strength of opponents and eyeball test. All supporting the case that we got two good-to-great closers.

Like sure, the sample may be small. And the sample doesnt include playoff series. But it never will contain the latter if we dont first build up to get there.

Your style is to circle around and throw shade at stuff without committing to any takes. Tell me then what is the thing you build your franchise around, if not "having two players who can win you close basketball games"?

I threw out my take and committed to it, you just don't like it. I don't believe in the predictive value of these stats nor do I believe in using them to make decisions on. Why? Because by nature these stats are unreliable due to the SSS. That's not shade, that's just my opinion making strong conclusions based on SSS.

As far as what I would make decisions around, once again I've already stated that. I would make decisions around who I think is the best over 48 minutes and I would feel better if our team had a better overall point differential with bad clutch performance than a team with worse point differential better clutch performance. I would evaluate my team on the basis of how they perform in those larger sample size with proven predictive power instead of a SSS. These are takes I've already written down and you've quoted. I don't know how to be more direct in what I'm saying other than to repeat the same thing again.

Feel free to disagree, but don't tell me I didn't share my opinion.

 

[HermanG]

I threw out my take and committed to it, you just don't like it. I don't believe in the predictive value of these stats nor do I believe in using them to make decisions on. Why? Because by nature these stats are unreliable due to the SSS. That's not shade, that's just my opinion making strong conclusions based on SSS.

As far as what I would make decisions around, once again I've already stated that. I would make decisions around who I think is the best over 48 minutes and I would feel better if our team had a better overall point differential with bad clutch performance than a team with worse point differential better clutch performance. These are takes I've already written down and you've quoted. I don't know how to be more direct in what I'm saying other than to repeat the same thing again.

Feel free to disagree, but don't tell me I didn't share my opinion.

Dude the question was "is Lauri and Key combo good enough to win playoff series".

Yes is a take. No is a take.

"I dont believe in these stats" is not a take... its just weak sauce.

 

[Udidthizz]

Just FYI what inspired me to ask this question was when I read JA quotes about DM heroball costing them games.. So I went to see DM clutch stats this year and saw this:

View attachment 19951

Scoring just 2.4 points with 37/29/67 splits and worse FTR than either one of Lauri and Key.... yeah that explains Cavs 7-12 record in the clutch with him.

TBF that’s in about 2/3rd of the minutes of Key and Lauri. Compensating for that he’s at 3.6 points, not far behind Key and Lauri. Still terrible efficiency though. Interesting stats. Thanks for posting this.

 

[KqWIN]

Dude the question was "is Lauri and Key combo good enough to win playoff series".

Yes is a take. No is a take.

"I dont believe in these stats" is not a take... its just weak sauce.

Here you go: The answer is "Yes" and the reasoning behind it is because their performance this season as whole is convincing enough to me.

The thread is called "Could you win with Lauri and Key being your closers?" and the entire post is about clutch stats and performance. There is no argument or statement made besides clutch performance. Every reply is about clutch performance. Sorry for having a take about clutch stats and clutch performance. I thought the topic of this thread was to talk about clutch stats and performance, but it seems like you're just looking for a pat on the back instead.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

I'm also a believer. Have to go check out the pod.

Key looks like he is a problem with the ball, and we know Lauri is a huge problem without it. Thats actually a pretty sweet pairing in terms of meshing skillsets and I dont know how you can plan to take them both out.

Sure if you got a lock down POA defender who can handle Key alone, then just have help close to Lauri and you solve 70% of your problems. But Key operates so well in PNR these days that I dont know how you take screen assists away also when you are already committing to Lauri?

Get AJ. That way, if they somehow force the ball out of Key's hands, some action runs through AJ with ~8 seconds remaining on the shot clock.

 

[HermanG]

Here you go: The answer is "Yes" and the reasoning behind it is because their performance this season as whole is convincing enough to me.

I appreciate the take.

The thread is called "Could you win with Lauri and Key being your closers?" and the entire post is about clutch stats and performance. There is no argument or statement made besides clutch performance. Every reply is about clutch performance. Sorry for having a take about clutch stats and clutch performance. I thought the topic of this thread was to talk about clutch stats and performance, but it seems like you're just looking for a pat on the back instead.

The way I do my threads is I usually end them with a question which is also consistent with the actual heading. Its not mandatory to answer it, but clutch stats were just the build up, not the beef. I use stats quite often just like you do.. so its rather surprising you didnt see the actual context and question they were presented in... despite it being in the title and in the OP.