Counterpoint to ridiculous thread re: Snyder

[Cappy_Smurf]

i sort of feel like the "system" to which you reference only became so out of luck, after Enes threw a tissy and we were forced to start Rudy and play him big minutes.. don't forget how big of a role quin gave enes, and how many wins it was producing. If enes held his tongue we'd likely be still running the same "system" that had us tens of games below .500.

I don't agree with this. Utah was never forced to start Rudy. Rudy earned it and it was almost embarrassing how long we kept starting Enes over him. IMO, that was a combined effort between GM and coach to try and salvage some of Kanter's trade value, knowing full well that he needed to be moved.

However there will need to be significant improvement made from the current product we are seeing on the court otherwise he will not last beyond next season. Nobody is expecting a championship contender from the current team, but not making the playoffs this year especially in a year when you might be able to get in with a losing record would be a huge huge disappointment.

To the fans, sure. I doubt it will be to DL. If he was desperate to make the playoffs this year, there was plenty of opportunity to improve the team through trade. I doubt Quin will be on a short leash next year.

Personally, I'm not so sure DL is all that interested in making the playoffs this year as a late seed. I think the Exum injury basically put the plan on hold for a year.

 

[LogGrad98]

I am still waiting for Quin to install a system. Of any kind.

 

[bozmansblues]

Also, (and i am a tyrone hater), for the record, Ty and his **** storm produced a pretty similar record to Quin's "system" thus far (.46 win% for quin, .43% for Ty).

just sayin.

I think the above is misleading - ty had a much more experienced team for most of his tenure with big al and milsapp etc - we saw what ty could do with the a young team when they went 25-57 in 2013 when he lost al and milsapp - the next year, Quin took over the same roster - minus the remaining vets and took the youngsters to a 38 win season. That's as direct comparison as you can get and Q got 13 more wins with a younger, more inexperienced and probably worse roster on paper. Q increased the offensive rating by 2 points and decreased the defensive rating by 7 points in that season - that is pretty amazing stuff.

I think with 90% of the coaches in this league - this Utah team would be struggling and getting blown out regularly - however Q has this team playing damn hard - and they are ultra competitive night in night out - which we are now taking for granted - in Ty's last year - u would tune in for a game and it would be over at qtr time!!! don't forget that. I am not saying accept mediocrity - I am just saying we have come a long way from Ty's season in just 18 months or so, and we probably need to wait another 18 months before we can expect the improvement needed to make us a potential top 4 western conference side hopefully. We have 2 injured players coming back next season - ie exum and burks - who will both add depth - and hopefully, DL can add a couple of further depth pieces to aid the cause - also I think hood and gobert will both be better next year having experienced a full season as starters in the league.

I personally think with Q we have someone who is keeping in touch with all the nba trends and will keep us in touch with the cutting edge as much as possible with the roster we have. He is also inspiring our players to play hard every game. With ty - it felt like we were in the dark ages and the players had checked out.

 

[Miggs]

I think Quin is frustrated with Trey's D. I think benching Burke is one of the best things Q has done. It sets a precedent. You don't put it together on both ends, you sit. Ingles has been limited for the same reason.

So Mack has excelled on both ends then?

 

[TheGobertReport]

I am still waiting for Quin to install a system. Of any kind.

You must not understand basketball. I'm not intending to be rude, but unless you're just saying this to rile people up then it's obvious you've never played or grasped the basic concepts of high level basketball.

 

[JAZZGASM]

So Mack has excelled on both ends then?

With the caveat that net rating is limited, the numbers show Mack is far superior to Burke, and so does the eye test. Mack is not good, but his D is way better than Burke's. I think Snyder knew he had to do something different at PG. That isn't to say Mack has "excelled". It is more of a situation where an average girl goes out clubbing with her ugly friend making her look more attractive in comparison.

Burke:
Month GP MIN OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg AST% AST/TO AST Ratio OREB% DREB% REB% TO Ratio eFG% TS% USG% PACE PIE
October 3 21.5 98.5 101.8 -3.3 26.3 2.50 26.4 1.8 10.7 6.2 10.6 50.0 52.3 19.2 92.54 12.9
November13 21.5 101.3 105.1 -3.8 14.4 1.10 13.4 1.6 10.0 5.7 12.2 52.5 54.0 23.2 95.38 9.4
December15 26.2 100.9 105.4 -4.5 26.0 2.17 18.7 2.0 7.5 4.7 8.6 50.3 52.5 25.9 94.40 11.9
January 15 25.5 103.1 97.5 5.6 18.0 3.08 15.2 0.9 6.8 3.9 4.9 47.0 49.2 24.5 91.97 10.1
February9 15.2 97.5 100.2 -2.7 21.1 1.60 18.7 1.9 9.1 5.7 11.7 39.8 40.4 23.6 95.47 4.4
March 2 17.1 85.4 117.7 -32.3 28.6 1.33 15.1 2.7 5.0 3.5 11.3 39.5 41.2 29.6 90.75 4.4

Mack (most games in Feb in Atlanta)
February8 19.4 105.4 102.2 3.2 17.3 1.06 16.1 0.0 11.1 5.6 15.2 52.2 54.0 24.8 98.12 8.4
March 3 28.2 103.9 103.8 0.1 28.6 2.67 31.1 1.3 11.5 6.4 11.7 36.0 42.5 18.7 94.89 6.6


Since joining the Jazz, Mack has been far superior to Burke. His stats in Utah show he has done decent on both ends of the floor where Burke is a negative. Not to mention, when Mack plays against bench players, his defense improves, his assists improve, his FG% improves, etc. Pretty much what you'd expect against lesser tier players.

Neto has improved a ton since the start of the season, and he has shown he can play good D. He has just been inconsistent on both ends. I'm guessing it is due to the longer season and he isn't used to it. Mack's size gives him a better ability to defend some PGs, but Neto has done well. Mack's defense has been better though. Neto's offensive rating has been very good overall. I think Neto should be a backup here long term. I'm amazed with how well Neto has shot the ball. He needs to improve his game in the lane.

I think Neto would do amazing in a more structured offense. Stockton, in addition to being an amazing player, was assisted by our offense. He knew where players were going to be and he knew where to put the ball. We don't have that anymore.

 

[JAZZGASM]

You must not understand basketball. I'm not intending to be rude, but unless you're just saying this to rile people up then it's obvious you've never played or grasped the basic concepts of high level basketball.

I could argue the same about you. I think Grad knows Quin has an "offense" per se. It it just an utter pile of ****. A good offense creates high percentage scoring opportunities with the added bonus of tiring out the competition. Our offense requires a lot of one on one contested shots (Hayward and Hood keep us in games). Our opponents get a rest on the defensive end for the most part. We don't make them work. We don't have many cuts (excluding the one scissor cut Hayward takes in the horns from the wing). We pass for no reason. Our off ball screens are close to nonexistent. On the other end, I'm not sure if Quin is even aware of what a charge is. I've only seen a handful taken this year.

Golden State's offense is largely modeled after the Spurs "strong" and "weak" motion sets along with a modifed version of "loop". Very simple plays that open up a ton of scoring. No reason we can't run these same sets.

Go watch some old Jazz games post rule change (2001+). Watch the sets we ran. Then watch a game today and tell me that LogGrad is really wrong.

 

[Stifle Tower]

It is more of a situation where an average girl goes out clubbing with her ugly friend making her look more attractive in comparison. .

More like the guys need to get really, really drunk before those women start to look attractive. Jazz need to lower beer prices at Vivint, That would encourage fans to drink more and then they wouldn't care about this 'all pass, no action' offense.

 

[addictionary]

The team's most valuable (open to discussion) player Hayward is mentioned in the 31st post.

So I congratulate Snyder for building a real team instead of a roster that depends on heroics of a few.

 

[homeytennis]

The team's most valuable (open to discussion) player Hayward is mentioned in the 31st post.

So I congratulate Snyder for building a real team instead of a roster that depends on heroics of a few.

I think a lot of what you need to know is comparing the shooting percentage of the Spurs and Golden State to the Jazz. That will tell you why their records are what they are and why the Jazz record is what it is. Shoot Quinn is supposed to be running the San Antonio offense. If so it ain't working.

 

[green]

I've always said that the Jazz should have tanked 3 years earlier. This could be our starting lineup right now:

Lillard
Hayward
Hood
Favors/Barnes
Gobert

We'd be competing for the #2 spot in the West with that team.

That being said, if you don't have talent, you can't win. No matter what system you run. Look at supposedly the greatest coach in the history of the NBA: Phil Jackson. He is sucking it up in NY. Amazing how he lost his greatness when he didn't have Kobe, Shaq, Jordan and Pippen on his team.

My point: We gave Snyder a **** team to work with. We had nothing. He still has no bench. And no PG.

At this point, if I own the Jazz, I give Snyder and Lindsay five years. This is year two. I want to see a playoff push this year. A playoff berth is ahead of schedule, especially considering Exum is hurt.

Next year: playoffs.

Next year: Playoffs.

Next year: Home court advantage.

If he isn't there, then I probably remove both Lindsay and Snyder at the same time. They would have had more than enough time to prove their worth.

So, all these fire/don't fire threads are WAAAAAAAYYYY to premature.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I've always said that the Jazz should have tanked 3 years earlier. This could be our starting lineup right now:

Lillard
Hayward
Hood
Favors/Barnes
Gobert

We'd be competing for the #2 spot in the West with that team.

That being said, if you don't have talent, you can't win. No matter what system you run. Look at supposedly the greatest coach in the history of the NBA: Phil Jackson. He is sucking it up in NY. Amazing how he lost his greatness when he didn't have Kobe, Shaq, Jordan and Pippen on his team.

My point: We gave Snyder a **** team to work with. We had nothing. He still has no bench. And no PG.

At this point, if I own the Jazz, I give Snyder and Lindsay five years. This is year two. I want to see a playoff push this year. A playoff berth is ahead of schedule, especially considering Exum is hurt.

Next year: playoffs.

Next year: Playoffs.

Next year: Home court advantage.

If he isn't there, then I probably remove both Lindsay and Snyder at the same time. They would have had more than enough time to prove their worth.

So, all these fire/don't fire threads are WAAAAAAAYYYY to premature.

The "don't fire" stuff is a necessary response to the idiotic "fire" posts. Right before the ASB nearly everyone was praising Snyder and Lindsay. After the ASB the schedule gets tougher and several yoyos immediately jump off the bandwagon. I hope we run those people over next time we accelerate.