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Culture of winning or tank?

Win or tank?

  • Total voters
    89
MT Steve said:

View: https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1587281045547667456


Pack it up everyone. When Tony speaks, the debate is OVER
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@Tony Jones can you expound on this a bit? I am sure you have seen us going over the tank vs play-to-win dichotomy, and as fans we are at least hoping for a good return on losing our key players in the off-seaason, so a lot of us were hoping tank. But if it was never planned to tank, what are the odds the team can actually make some noise, vs become a 38-44 record treadmill team, never getting the top picks and never getting past the play-in? Yeah yeah yeah, they can't say they are tanking, we get that, but if the plan were to put their best team forward, was this really it, or can we expect more moves?
 
Scramantha said:
I rarely post and do not know you, and you are likely a very nice guy or lady. But I believe you are drunk, or possibly on Ketamine right now. This roster carries zero resemblance to the Jailblazers roster of the late 90s that was loaded with serious NBA talent at a very, very high price. I think the payroll broke records but I could be wrong there. The '99-'00 roster featured:

Damon Stoudamire
Steve Smith
Scottie Pippen
Rasheed Wallace
Arvydas Sabonis
Brian Grant
Bonzi Wells
Jermaine O'Neal

These guys were mostly older (not all), there was multiple All-Stars, some NBA ROYs, some previous NBA Champions and some Olympic players on the team. This current Jazz roster is like the antithesis of that. I don't get the comparison.
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I want to go on record as saying that I would very much appreciate some ketamine.

Thank you.
 
LogGrad98 said:
@Tony Jones can you expound on this a bit? I am sure you have seen us going over the tank vs play-to-win dichotomy, and as fans we are at least hoping for a good return on losing our key players in the off-seaason, so a lot of us were hoping tank. But if it was never planned to tank, what are the odds the team can actually make some noise, vs become a 38-44 record treadmill team, never getting the top picks and never getting past the play-in? Yeah yeah yeah, they can't say they are tanking, we get that, but if the plan were to put their best team forward, was this really it, or can we expect more moves?
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A **** ton of picks going forward are what help us improve.
 
LogGrad98 said:
@Tony Jones can you expound on this a bit? I am sure you have seen us going over the tank vs play-to-win dichotomy, and as fans we are at least hoping for a good return on losing our key players in the off-seaason, so a lot of us were hoping tank. But if it was never planned to tank, what are the odds the team can actually make some noise, vs become a 38-44 record treadmill team, never getting the top picks and never getting past the play-in? Yeah yeah yeah, they can't say they are tanking, we get that, but if the plan were to put their best team forward, was this really it, or can we expect more moves?
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Quite simply, the Jazz were never coming into the season to lose on purpose. This was never going to be Houston. This was never going to be Oklahoma City. This was never going to be Orlando. The Jazz wanted veterans on the roster because they wanted their younger guys to be mentored. They were always going to come into the season and play hard and try and win every game.

That being said, if the losses come, it will come organically. It will come because other teams are better. Not because they were laying down. Utah’s focus this season is resetting the culture it lost last year and building a foundation so that whomever new comes in next season comes into a system, not a roster full of teenagers. The Jazz can go 82-0, 0-82, or 41-41 and be in a great spot because they have so many assets going forward. Treadmill teams have no way to improve. The Jazz have a clear path to improve significantly and quickly, no matter what the result of this season is

Does that means there won’t be a trade? No. If the Jazz can find a great deal for mike Conley, they would probably do it tomorrow. But they can trade every vet they have and a roster of sexton and Lauri and Vanderbilt is probably going to win them at least some games, and they are much less likely to trade any of those guys.

That’s why this isn’t a tank. It’s more a development year and a fact finding year. A tank means laying down and losing on purpose. The Jazz aren’t losing on purpose.
 
I think the idea of DA was to build a team who could go both ways. Vets monitoring the young one. Could fail and in this case, sell some vets at the deadline and tank hard. Or it works and try to be as good as possible and get one or two others players next year to make the team even better. I'm still quite sure DA was not expected this start.
 
Tony Jones said:
Quite simply, the Jazz were never coming into the season to lose on purpose. This was never going to be Houston. This was never going to be Oklahoma City. This was never going to be Orlando. The Jazz wanted veterans on the roster because they wanted their younger guys to be mentored. They were always going to come into the season and play hard and try and win every game.

That being said, if the losses come, it will come organically. It will come because other teams are better. Not because they were laying down. Utah’s focus this season is resetting the culture it lost last year and building a foundation so that whomever new comes in next season comes into a system, not a roster full of teenagers. The Jazz can go 82-0, 0-82, or 41-41 and be in a great spot because they have so many assets going forward. Treadmill teams have no way to improve. The Jazz have a clear path to improve significantly and quickly, no matter what the result of this season is

Does that means there won’t be a trade? No. If the Jazz can find a great deal for mike Conley, they would probably do it tomorrow. But they can trade every vet they have and a roster of sexton and Lauri and Vanderbilt is probably going to win them at least some games, and they are much less likely to trade any of those guys.

That’s why this isn’t a tank. It’s more a development year and a fact finding year. A tank means laying down and losing on purpose. The Jazz aren’t losing on purpose.
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Thank you! So what are your thoughts on sustainability? Is this just fool's gold and will it all come crashing down at some point? Or is this really who we are, and can we get even better?
 
I will say, if Ainge actually does trade a bunch of useful players that are making this team a joy to watch and only gets some draft picks, I'm probably in a minority here but he'll come close to killing my interest in the team completely. And I've been a die hard Jazz fan for nearly 35 years.

Just messing with a team to lose more that is playing with such joy and fun would be a soul crushing feeling.
 
Nate505 said:
I will say, if Ainge actually does trade a bunch of useful players that are making this team a joy to watch and only gets some draft picks, I'm probably in a minority here but he'll come close to killing my interest in the team completely. And I've been a die hard Jazz fan for nearly 35 years.

Just messing with a team to lose more that is playing with such joy and fun would be a soul crushing feeling.
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He’s not trading Lauri. If he traded Conley/Beasley which opened up a spot for Sexton to start and Ochai to get more minutes is that really the end of the world?
 
Elizah Huge said:
He’s not trading Lauri. If he traded Conley/Beasley which opened up a spot for Sexton to start and Ochai to get more minutes is that really the end of the world?
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No. I could live with that I guess, especially if there were a bunch of draft picks with it. Mostly though I'm just enjoying watching this team now and don't want to see any major disruptions with it. At least as long as they're playing decent basketball.

Part of this stems from something I watched with Jalen Rose saying that Ainge is going to keep trading guys until the Jazz are terrible and have better lottery odds.

Now, if you're telling me that I'm a ****ing idiot for taking anything Jalen Rose says seriously, well...I have no defense for that.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Not sure I'd want to watch Sexton the starting PG...
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right now maybe not ideal since they are not tanking,& since they don't need him to start. After Mike is traded which I am not sold will happen now, Sexton is the frontrunner for the job like it or not. He can prove everyone wrong including you & I imo.
He is certainly not the best there yet, but looks like he has never really been given the chops opps so to speak , to prove it either. He was never the point guard in Cleveland , despite haveing plenty of tankl commander usage with no help. I see his time in Cleveland at the 2 except for by committee, when the pg whomever it was , was out of the game. He can run a offense better than he showed in those settings imo. If he never gets any long run at the position in Utah, he may never get the chance again. He will be forced into his comfort zone at the 6 because like you see him, he has not been given a fair shake at the position,especially after gaining the tunnel vision label from college and being so good at microwave scoring.
 
Nate505 said:
I will say, if Ainge actually does trade a bunch of useful players that are making this team a joy to watch and only gets some draft picks, I'm probably in a minority here but he'll come close to killing my interest in the team completely. And I've been a die hard Jazz fan for nearly 35 years.

Just messing with a team to lose more that is playing with such joy and fun would be a soul crushing feeling.
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What if he trades conley, gay, and beasley for picks and that gives more minutes to other guys that make this team a joy to watch as well?


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
 
fishonjazz said:
What if he trades conley, gay, and beasley for picks and that gives more minutes to other guys that make this team a joy to watch as well?


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
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That is the big thing for me. We are loaded with a ton of guys that I want to see play so thinning out the roster is ideal. Ideally I would love to see THT, Ochai, NAW, Kessler and Simone getting a consistent 15 to 20 minutes a game. Also in blowouts it would be nice to see more of Dok and Bolmaro. We may not have picked up their options but still doesn't mean they could end up being part of our future.
 
Danny Ainge just cast his vote with a 4" thick purple monster.

TANK NOTE!

Also, if Adam Silver scolds us for making these trades then he is a fool. We did our best to win all season and then the opportunity to take this pick gutted the team. In fact, he owes us for helping out the Lakers.

Now... LOSE 26 STRAIGHT JAZZ! Its for the best.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Danny Ainge just cast his vote with a 4" thick purple monster.

TANK NOTE!

Also, if Adam Silver scolds us for making these trades then he is a fool. We did our best to win all season and then the opportunity to take this pick gutted the team. In fact, he owes us for helping out the Lakers.

Now... LOSE 26 STRAIGHT JAZZ! Its for the best.
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Dont think we gonna loose 26 but i can see us going for 5/6-20/21 easily....
 
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