Culture of winning or tank?

[Scramantha]

This team now reminds me of that Portland trailblazers team from 1998 to 2000. How that roster puts together a winning record is beyond me, let alone making multiple trips to the conference final. But that may be what we are seeing here with this Jazz team.

I rarely post and do not know you, and you are likely a very nice guy or lady. But I believe you are drunk, or possibly on Ketamine right now. This roster carries zero resemblance to the Jailblazers roster of the late 90s that was loaded with serious NBA talent at a very, very high price. I think the payroll broke records but I could be wrong there. The '99-'00 roster featured:

Damon Stoudamire
Steve Smith
Scottie Pippen
Rasheed Wallace
Arvydas Sabonis
Brian Grant
Bonzi Wells
Jermaine O'Neal

These guys were mostly older (not all), there was multiple All-Stars, some NBA ROYs, some previous NBA Champions and some Olympic players on the team. This current Jazz roster is like the antithesis of that. I don't get the comparison.

 

[jom2003]

I rarely post and do not know you, and you are likely a very nice guy or lady. But I believe you are drunk, or possibly on Ketamine right now. This roster carries zero resemblance to the Jailblazers roster of the late 90s that was loaded with serious NBA talent at a very, very high price. I think the payroll broke records but I could be wrong there. The '99-'00 roster featured:

Damon Stoudamire
Steve Smith
Scottie Pippen
Rasheed Wallace
Arvydas Sabonis
Brian Grant
Bonzi Wells
Jermaine O'Neal

These guys were mostly older (not all), there was multiple All-Stars, some NBA ROYs, some previous NBA Champions and some Olympic players on the team. This current Jazz roster is like the antithesis of that. I don't get the comparison.

Well, we have Olympic players in Fontecchio and Bolmaro, a previous NBA champion in THT and all star in Conley. We don't have ROY but we have SMOY in Clarkson.

And let's not pretend these awards or accolades mean anything without context.

Scottie was already 34 year old when he joined the Blazers and his haydays were clearly over. Likewise Sabonis was well past his prime and had trouble staying healthy. Both guys put up real pedestrian numbers for blazers despite their previous career achievement.

O’Neal was only a backup and averaged 4 points/3 revs in Portland. He did not break out until Indiana. Kessler is a way better player than Blazers O'Neal.

Similarly Bonzi Wells averaged 8 points off the bench and was nothing close to what he later achieved in his career.

Rasheed was their best player but his best years were in Detroit. Despite his talent he was widely considered a headcase and underachiever in Portland. Lauri has put up better numbers.

And is Brian Grant really better than Sexton/Beasley/THT?

 

[Nate505]

As of the end of October... **** the tank

 

[Conestoga Finn]

Winning culture of course!

Now you've a player who know what it means. It's about the team. Even in the top dog leading role in Susijengi, Lauri never forget what is the substance of success in the team sport.

Can you guys possibly imagine that? You just got an individual athletic, a piece of team, but leader leading from the front, far above average tactician, and generally very good spirited, out-going, no BS casual dude to your "tank", that also happens to be the ultimate Talisman, and undisputed on-scene commander of Finnish basketball, Trying to make some kind of stabile living for his family.

Without making much noise about it. That he knows a lot about how to create winning culture in a team.

This all is real and happening now, not about hazy future expectations of maybe achievable probabilities of yet unfolded unseen future history of potentially lucky development scenarios for a potential of a X% draft pick what eva........h.

Gah, you know it is a team sport, you know.

 

[LogGrad98]

View: https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1587281045547667456


Pack it up everyone. When Tony speaks, the debate is OVER

@Tony Jones can you expound on this a bit? I am sure you have seen us going over the tank vs play-to-win dichotomy, and as fans we are at least hoping for a good return on losing our key players in the off-seaason, so a lot of us were hoping tank. But if it was never planned to tank, what are the odds the team can actually make some noise, vs become a 38-44 record treadmill team, never getting the top picks and never getting past the play-in? Yeah yeah yeah, they can't say they are tanking, we get that, but if the plan were to put their best team forward, was this really it, or can we expect more moves?

 

[LogGrad98]

I rarely post and do not know you, and you are likely a very nice guy or lady. But I believe you are drunk, or possibly on Ketamine right now. This roster carries zero resemblance to the Jailblazers roster of the late 90s that was loaded with serious NBA talent at a very, very high price. I think the payroll broke records but I could be wrong there. The '99-'00 roster featured:

Damon Stoudamire
Steve Smith
Scottie Pippen
Rasheed Wallace
Arvydas Sabonis
Brian Grant
Bonzi Wells
Jermaine O'Neal

These guys were mostly older (not all), there was multiple All-Stars, some NBA ROYs, some previous NBA Champions and some Olympic players on the team. This current Jazz roster is like the antithesis of that. I don't get the comparison.

I want to go on record as saying that I would very much appreciate some ketamine.

Thank you.

 

[Ron Mexico]

@Tony Jones can you expound on this a bit? I am sure you have seen us going over the tank vs play-to-win dichotomy, and as fans we are at least hoping for a good return on losing our key players in the off-seaason, so a lot of us were hoping tank. But if it was never planned to tank, what are the odds the team can actually make some noise, vs become a 38-44 record treadmill team, never getting the top picks and never getting past the play-in? Yeah yeah yeah, they can't say they are tanking, we get that, but if the plan were to put their best team forward, was this really it, or can we expect more moves?

A **** ton of picks going forward are what help us improve.

 

[Tony Jones]

@Tony Jones can you expound on this a bit? I am sure you have seen us going over the tank vs play-to-win dichotomy, and as fans we are at least hoping for a good return on losing our key players in the off-seaason, so a lot of us were hoping tank. But if it was never planned to tank, what are the odds the team can actually make some noise, vs become a 38-44 record treadmill team, never getting the top picks and never getting past the play-in? Yeah yeah yeah, they can't say they are tanking, we get that, but if the plan were to put their best team forward, was this really it, or can we expect more moves?

Quite simply, the Jazz were never coming into the season to lose on purpose. This was never going to be Houston. This was never going to be Oklahoma City. This was never going to be Orlando. The Jazz wanted veterans on the roster because they wanted their younger guys to be mentored. They were always going to come into the season and play hard and try and win every game.

That being said, if the losses come, it will come organically. It will come because other teams are better. Not because they were laying down. Utah’s focus this season is resetting the culture it lost last year and building a foundation so that whomever new comes in next season comes into a system, not a roster full of teenagers. The Jazz can go 82-0, 0-82, or 41-41 and be in a great spot because they have so many assets going forward. Treadmill teams have no way to improve. The Jazz have a clear path to improve significantly and quickly, no matter what the result of this season is

Does that means there won’t be a trade? No. If the Jazz can find a great deal for mike Conley, they would probably do it tomorrow. But they can trade every vet they have and a roster of sexton and Lauri and Vanderbilt is probably going to win them at least some games, and they are much less likely to trade any of those guys.

That’s why this isn’t a tank. It’s more a development year and a fact finding year. A tank means laying down and losing on purpose. The Jazz aren’t losing on purpose.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

I think the idea of DA was to build a team who could go both ways. Vets monitoring the young one. Could fail and in this case, sell some vets at the deadline and tank hard. Or it works and try to be as good as possible and get one or two others players next year to make the team even better. I'm still quite sure DA was not expected this start.

 

[LogGrad98]

Quite simply, the Jazz were never coming into the season to lose on purpose. This was never going to be Houston. This was never going to be Oklahoma City. This was never going to be Orlando. The Jazz wanted veterans on the roster because they wanted their younger guys to be mentored. They were always going to come into the season and play hard and try and win every game.

That being said, if the losses come, it will come organically. It will come because other teams are better. Not because they were laying down. Utah’s focus this season is resetting the culture it lost last year and building a foundation so that whomever new comes in next season comes into a system, not a roster full of teenagers. The Jazz can go 82-0, 0-82, or 41-41 and be in a great spot because they have so many assets going forward. Treadmill teams have no way to improve. The Jazz have a clear path to improve significantly and quickly, no matter what the result of this season is

Does that means there won’t be a trade? No. If the Jazz can find a great deal for mike Conley, they would probably do it tomorrow. But they can trade every vet they have and a roster of sexton and Lauri and Vanderbilt is probably going to win them at least some games, and they are much less likely to trade any of those guys.

That’s why this isn’t a tank. It’s more a development year and a fact finding year. A tank means laying down and losing on purpose. The Jazz aren’t losing on purpose.

Thank you! So what are your thoughts on sustainability? Is this just fool's gold and will it all come crashing down at some point? Or is this really who we are, and can we get even better?

 

[Nate505]

I will say, if Ainge actually does trade a bunch of useful players that are making this team a joy to watch and only gets some draft picks, I'm probably in a minority here but he'll come close to killing my interest in the team completely. And I've been a die hard Jazz fan for nearly 35 years.

Just messing with a team to lose more that is playing with such joy and fun would be a soul crushing feeling.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I will say, if Ainge actually does trade a bunch of useful players that are making this team a joy to watch and only gets some draft picks, I'm probably in a minority here but he'll come close to killing my interest in the team completely. And I've been a die hard Jazz fan for nearly 35 years.

Just messing with a team to lose more that is playing with such joy and fun would be a soul crushing feeling.

He’s not trading Lauri. If he traded Conley/Beasley which opened up a spot for Sexton to start and Ochai to get more minutes is that really the end of the world?