Dante Exum Over Smart: Massive Failure

infection

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It’s rare teams make quick decisions on high draft picks.
Fultz? I'm not going to bother looking at it, but if you find any of the top 5 busts of the last 10 years, I'd be very surprised if you found even one who was given more time than Exum.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
Fultz? I'm not going to bother looking at it, but if you find any of the top 5 busts of the last 10 years, I'd be very surprised if you found even one who was given more time than Exum.
And that was a mistake, Fultz may never live up to his potential but he is a much better player now and is developing nicely. He May breakout next season.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
And that was a mistake, Fultz may never live up to his potential but he is a much better player now and is developing nicely. He May breakout next season.
I haven’t watched that much of him, but based on what I’ve seen, I’d bet that we’ve already seen something at or near peak-Fultz.
 

infection

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2018 Award Winner
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That proves my statement false, how?
You’re saying that people don’t give up quickly on high picks. I read that as a defense of us “not giving up quickly” on Exum. We gave him more time than probably any other top 5 bust in 10 years. Maybe even 15 or 20.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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I haven’t watched that much of him, but based on what I’ve seen, I’d bet that we’ve already seen something at or near peak-Fultz.
And the Sixers got a first and cleared like $10M in capspace by not waiting it out. One of the better moves from them since Hinkie left.

Fultz is getting better but that team is still much better with Augustin at pg and he gets paid less.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
You’re saying that people don’t give up quickly on high picks. I read that as a defense of us “not giving up quickly” on Exum. We gave him more time than probably any other top 5 bust in 10 years. Maybe even 15 or 20.
There are 1 or 2 solid examples of teams pivoting away from busts quickly almost every year. There aren't many times it comes back to haunt them.

Dragan Bender
Anthony Bennett
Derrick Williams
Alex Len
Okafor
Hezonja
Stauskas
Mudiay
Chriss
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
I haven’t watched that much of him, but based on what I’ve seen, I’d bet that we’ve already seen something at or near peak-Fultz.
His 3pt shot is still iffy but it looks more likely to improve than it ever did. He shot %38 in the playoffs. He is already great at breaking into paint even with limited space.

Even with marginal improvements to his shooting, the confidence that he built up this season and experience will help him become a better player. This was his first full season and he grabbed the starting job on a team that made the playoffs.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
His 3pt shot is still iffy but it looks more likely to improve than it ever did. He shot %38 in the playoffs. He is already great at breaking into paint even with limited space.

Even with marginal improvements to his shooting, the confidence that he built up this season and experience will help him become a better player. This was his first full season and he grabbed the starting job on a team that made the playoffs.
That's all fine and good... he's come a long way... but he still was way below league average TS% and his team is much better when Augustin is on the court. I would not say that gamble has paid off by them. I'd rather have the Sixers side of that trade.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
And the Sixers got a first and cleared like $10M in capspace by not waiting it out. One of the better moves from them since Hinkie left.

Fultz is getting better but that team is still much better with Augustin at pg and he gets paid less.
Sixers sorely needed someone that could handle the ball and even with Simmons there they would need it.

They traded the pick at it's lowest value and they did nothing to win with the capspace. First is Thunder's and it may turn good but it's more likely that it will not. If Fultz keeps improving than they definitely have given up too early for a first round exit.

That's all fine and good... he's come a long way... but he still was way below league average TS% and his team is much better when Augustin is on the court. I would not say that gamble has paid off by them. I'd rather have the Sixers side of that trade.
Bad 3pt shooting affects his TS for sure but he has a higher EFG and does things Augustin can't do like defend or consistently break down a defense. I don't think they are much better with Augustin, may be slightly better but Augustin is too small to start. He gets picked on. He had a bad start to the season as well so his off the bench role may just suit him better.

They are also much better when they play together. Small sample size, though.
 

Handlogten's Heros

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2019 Award Winner
Sixers sorely needed someone that could handle the ball and even with Simmons there they would need it.

They traded the pick at it's lowest value and they did nothing to win with the capspace. First is Thunder's and it may turn good but it's more likely that it will not. If Fultz keeps improving than they definitely have given up too early for a first round exit.



Bad 3pt shooting affects his TS for sure but he has a higher EFG and does things Augustin can't do like defend or consistently break down a defense. I don't think they are much better with Augustin, may be slightly better but Augustin is too small to start. He gets picked on. He had a bad start to the season as well so his off the bench role may just suit him better.

They are also much better when they play together. Small sample size, though.
Sixers needed someone that could create a shot for themselves off the dribble. Fultz would only complicate their spacing issues. They signed Horford... dumb move but I'd rather have a first and 10M in cap space. I just don't see him having the huge upside until he shows any ability to shoot off the dribble... that was half of why he was drafted so high.

Even with all of DJ's limitations the team was still better overall with him on the court. Not saying the trade is a bust for Orlando... they needed a guy that could pop. Fultz still could do that but I would not call that experiment a success just yet.
 

Hekate

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Sixers needed someone that could create a shot for themselves off the dribble. Fultz would only complicate their spacing issues. They signed Horford... dumb move but I'd rather have a first and 10M in cap space. I just don't see him having the huge upside until he shows any ability to shoot off the dribble... that was half of why he was drafted so high.

Even with all of DJ's limitations the team was still better overall with him on the court. Not saying the trade is a bust for Orlando... they needed a guy that could pop. Fultz still could do that but I would not call that experiment a success just yet.
He is okay on middies. He definitely has some pull-up game. Fultz obviously would not start if he was with Philly but he would help, they were so desperate for some playmaking that they were giving the ball to Neto.

And it's not about just this season, Fultz could come back much improved next season and actually help them.

Orlando has -1.1 offensive rating with Augustin and -6.3 defensive rating vs off- court.

Fultz has 5.3 offensive rating and 5.7 defensive rating vs off-court.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
His 3pt shot is still iffy but it looks more likely to improve than it ever did. He shot %38 in the playoffs. He is already great at breaking into paint even with limited space.

Even with marginal improvements to his shooting, the confidence that he built up this season and experience will help him become a better player. This was his first full season and he grabbed the starting job on a team that made the playoffs.
For his sake, I hope he becomes what you see.
 
Its fair if you decide to sell a pick and punt if there are 7-8 legit nba players selected in the next 15 picks. We aren't talking about one guy. We did it again too... They have a low probability of hitting but if you tout your development team and then sell the chance to feed that development team multiple times... you get to receive some criticism.

We were selling picks for cash considerations while operating at the salary floor.
Everyteam sales picks for cash. It's common practice. I am in same boat as you. I know how hard free agency is For Jazz so they need to be drafting two players minimum every year. Need to utilize the g league team and like you said develop these young players. Problem is the fans are always pushing for roster changes and trades. The jazz did it and now we all see how it turned out with Conley.. now maybe the fans will back up some on always wanting to flip the rosters. A girlfriend of mine is sibling with someone that works in Jazz PR department and it's no secret that the jazz made roster moves last years because of soci pressure. They wanted to keep core and wanted to keep drafting and building around Mitchell but media tricked them into thinking donovan could win a chip now and they tried and it backfired. They need to go back to drafting and developing, like you mentioned
 

prodigy

Well-Known Member
I hated Smart so much I didn't want him in a jazz jersey. I also knew there was going to be a drop in talent once Aaron Gordon went and there was. Look at picks 5-12. I rmember people being super high on Noah Vonleh and I never understood why.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
It's surprising there wasnt more hype for Jokic in such a weak draft.
I and another poster whose name I forgot was the only ones hyping him up. It's kind of weird he and Mudiay were in the same draft, they played off each other perfectly in the combines that Mudiay's stock must have went up some.

I was so sad when we sold the pick and he went just after that.
 
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