David Locke - Utah Jazz are NOT tanking

[Step-Back Hook]

Trading 3 rotation guys for nothing back is about as clear of a tank move as you will ever see. Unfortunately we have had a soft schedule since the trade and Lauri has just been so damn good and every game we seem to have one or two other guys really step up.

I guess we can agree at this point the whole term is about semantics so everyone is right or everyone is wrong.
I am OK with that bc I don't care as far as we do not start "resting" the core to lose.

 

[HermanG]

By the definition some give there have literally been 0 tanking teams ever. Or maybe the Sixers... but even the Sixers the coaches and players were trying to win.

To be a tanking team you must do literally everything to lose. You must trade every good player. You must start from day 1 of the preseason. You must also state your only goal is to lose games... you can not say that you are doing it to develop young players... then it is a rebuild. The coach must hit on all the players girlfriends and spouses to ensure they hate him. You must keep the home locker room at 77 degrees or higher else the players will be too comfortable. Also this tank must last at least two decades AT LEAST.

Stop exaggarating. No one is saying you have to do everything to lose. Oh except the official definitions found in the interwebs.

This is the generally used definition:
Tanking in sports refers to the practice of intentionally fielding non-competitive teams to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams.

Are we a non-competitive team? Are we even a losing team?

I have asked this twice now. Are there any other moves than win now or tanking in your terminology?

 

[fishonjazz]

we make that LA deal even if we dont have our own pick since its the best for our future with cap space, player development and other aspects in mind.

Agree to disagree. In that instance playoff experience and winning culture is more valuable. Then you trade those dudes for some garbage in the offseason if you wants all teh cap spaces and whatnot.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trading 3 rotation guys for nothing back is about as clear of a tank move as you will ever see. Unfortunately we have had a soft schedule since the trade and Lauri has just been so damn good and every game we seem to have one or two other guys really step up.

4 rotation guys. 3 of them starters. (Beasley, vando, and mike are all starting and NAW got some good minutes last night in a close game.)

 

[Eddie Zero]

We might do some mini tanking at the very end of the season.provided we are losing against more bottom dwellers like SASconsistently from here on out. even while we are trying to win.
But if we keep winning, there is no way in hell we are tanking the play in game for example, not just for a slim to none chance at a top 4 pick.
Trading 3 rotation players although tank written all over it, only proved false as we still have the best players on the roster and clearly the one's that really made the engine run anyway.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

View: https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1630760064930971648


From TJ last night lol.

 

[fishonjazz]

Stop exaggarating. No one is saying you have to do everything to lose. Oh except the official definitions found in the interwebs.

This is the generally used definition:
Tanking in sports refers to the practice of intentionally fielding non-competitive teams to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams.

Are we a non-competitive team? Are we even a losing team?

I have asked this twice now. Are there any other moves than win now or tanking in your terminology?

Well i mean even by the definition you posted a winning and competitive team can still be a tanking team. Say a team intentionally fields a non competitive team to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams but then the team they fielded is better than expected and they win and are competitive.

If a team (lets say the lakers this year) field what they think is a championship level team but then suck really bad does that mean they are tanking?

I tend to look at the moves the front office makes and interpret those moves. If I see a team that was in the playoffs year after and even had the best record in the league and 3 all stars and 6 man of the year and DPOY and I see that team trade away literally every starter from that team for a bunch of young dudes who weren't very good on the teams they came from and picks then that is a team intending to intentionally field a non competitive team. In this instance some of the pieces that came back were better than expected and the team had some luck winning close games and playing teams missing starters and stars and they won more than expected and the tank got destroyed by the most improved player in the league.

 

[fishonjazz]

You cant just say "the team is winning so they aren't tanking" or "the team is losing so they are tanking"
For me you have to look at the moves made at the time that they are made and use your judgement. When we made the trades we made in the summer almost everyone said we were tanking. Vegas definitely did. Im not even going to discuss the trade deadline trade cause that was obviously a tank trade.

 

[HermanG]

Trading 3 rotation guys for nothing back is about as clear of a tank move as you will ever see. Unfortunately we have had a soft schedule since the trade and Lauri has just been so damn good and every game we seem to have one or two other guys really step up.

You do also understand that Beasley and Conley combined for 21 shots per game on worse accuracy than anyone of Lauri, Sexton, KO, Ochai and Clarkson?

Both were shooting pretty much the same around 40/36/80. Only one shooting worse from 3 is Clarkson at 35 (others 39+) and Clarkson is also lowest in FG% at 45 from current starters but still better than Conley and Beasley.

Not saying the trade didnt make us worse since it gutted our bench... but we didnt give away guys from the top end.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Stop exaggarating. No one is saying you have to do everything to lose. Oh except the official definitions found in the interwebs.

This is the generally used definition:
Tanking in sports refers to the practice of intentionally fielding non-competitive teams to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams.

Are we a non-competitive team? Are we even a losing team?

I have asked this twice now. Are there any other moves than win now or tanking in your terminology?

I can exaggerate all I want... its fun.

We lost to a team last night that had lost 16 in a row... are they tanking or are they "competitive"? What about Houston and Detroit... are they tanking or rebuilding?

Of course bruh... there are a **** ton of moves... I don't know where you are coming up with that part of the argument. It does not matter. When you are firmly in the middle of the NBA though... generally when you make trades it has the purpose of helping you rise above the fray or get assets for future years. When you gather assets for future years by yielding talent it will logically hurt your opportunity to continue winning at the rate you currently established.

We will end with a losing record this year. We could have easily had a winning record and made not just the play in but top 6. Call that whatever you would like.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You do also understand that Beasley and Conley combined for 21 shots per game on worse accuracy than anyone of Lauri, Sexton, KO, Ochai and Clarkson?

Both were shooting pretty much the same around 40/36/80. Only one shooting worse from 3 is Clarkson at 35 (others 39+) and Clarkson is also lowest in FG% at 45 from current starters but still better than Conley and Beasley.

Not saying the trade didnt make us worse since it gutted our bench... but we didnt give away guys from the top end.

Oh dear Lord... really. Yeah we want to keep our TOP guys... we replaced Beasley and Conley with THT/Ochai/Fontechio... is that a downgrade or nah. What about Vando for more Gay and JTA?

Again this is the "we didn't sell EVERYTHING so can't be tanking". We sold off 3 rotation players, 1 more that would have been prominently placed in the rotation after the trade, and a couple seconds for a protected 1st (and cap space this offseason).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Well i mean even by the definition you posted a winning and competitive team can still be a tanking team. Say a team intentionally fields a non competitive team to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams but then the team they fielded is better than expected and they win and are competitive.

If a team (lets say the lakers this year) field what they think is a championship level team but then suck really bad does that mean they are tanking?

I tend to look at the moves the front office makes and interpret those moves. If I see a team that was in the playoffs year after and even had the best record in the league and 3 all stars and 6 man of the year and DPOY and I see that team trade away literally every starter from that team for a bunch of young dudes who weren't very good on the teams they came from and picks then that is a team intending to intentionally field a non competitive team. In this instance some of the pieces that came back were better than expected and the team had some luck winning close games and playing teams missing starters and stars and they won more than expected and the tank got destroyed by the most improved player in the league.

You can also replace the word non-competitive with less-competitive to be more accurate. We have certainly intentionally made moves that make the team less competitive.