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Dear Loggrad,

Miggs

Well-Known Member
Let me take some time to finally point out why I believe the Jazz will take a major step forward this year and win a significantly greater amount of games than last season. In no particular order...

1) Refs. Recently, someone here on Jazzfanz posted a link (I can't find it) with the number of wrong calls made by refs last year according to the team those calls went against. We were dead last and from what I recall, it wasn't even close. The refs screwed us. Big time. I don't believe it to be some conscious decision on their parts. I just believe that we had really, REALLY bad luck and weren't very respected. General common sense says that luck should turn around. MorEover, I think just having faces like Joe Johnson, George Hill and Boris Diaw will add some much needed respect to our team. WHether we like it or not, names oftentimes get calls, and even if those aren't the guys getting the calls, just having their faces on the bench adds some legitimacy to our team imo. +2 wins

2) Close games. We were awful last year and that's despite having one of the best statistical closers in the league in Hayward. That said, this too should balance out. While we were very unlucky in this regard last year, we should be better this season, perhaps even much better. I recall Kicky saying months ago that over the course of a season (and seasons), these things pretty much balance out (I don't know which thread it was in) and I see it unfolding that way for us this season. That doesn't mean we will be 18-6 in close games. I'm just thinking .500ish or better. If nothing else, the presence of Hill, Johnson and Diaw should really be a calming influence (even if they're on the bench) as games wind down and I think that along with a normal statistical regression helps us win a few more close games. In short, we should be much better here. +3 wins

3) Injuries/Bench Play. We had somewhere around 170 games missed from our top six players last year. That's about 30 games per player. Months ago, I looked up where we ranked as far as games missed go and I want to say we were fifth worst in the entire NBA. As far as top six players go, I'm not exactly sure but I'd have to think we were one of the worst three teams in the league. I see two possible scenarios this year and in both cases, the team performs much, much better. The first scenario is we are banged up almost equally as badly as last season. However, with our off-season acquisitions, we now have depth and can keep on ballin' without some huge hiccup. Hill gets injured? We have Dante. Burks goes down again? We have Joe Johnson. Favors or Lyles or Gobert go down. Diaw can play some meaningful minutes. And we aren't relegated to bringing in Tibor Pleiss, Chris Johnson and any other ******* for major minutes. That's the worst case scenario. The best case is we have minimal injuries and our 9-10 man rotation is one of the best in the NBA and we now have legit talent on the floor for 48 minutes a night. This should be our biggest aide in improving this season. Talent and depth and (hopefully) fewer injuries. +4 wins

4) Organic growth. Hayward has gotten better every season. He had little to work with last year (due to other's injuries) and still came out as an elite closer at end of games on offense, the #1 ranked small forward defensively (I forget which metric was used here), and was statistically very strong on offense in most ways. Add in what should be a huge leap for Exum (go back and watch SL last August) and at least small improvements in their games from Hood and Lyles and I like the upside of our guys. Then, by all accounts, Favos has worked his *** off, not settling for being a 16.5/8.5 guy and should be a monster this year. Basically, we were the second youngest team in the league last year and knowing that, have a ton of room for organic growth. That's not say I think all of our guys are going to max their potential let alone do so this season. But they should definitely get better. Most of them anyway. +2 wins

5) Vet presences. We needed this. We had basically no one (Booker? Ingles?) to lead, no one to truly hold one another accountable because they'll be listened, no one to teach, etcetera. Johnson, Hill and Diaw should be huge in this way now. + 1 win

That brings us to 52 wins and quite frankly, I think we should be much, much better as far as #2, #3 and #4 go. I see our absolute basement (more injuries, suck in close games again, refs suck again) at about 44 games. I see our absolute ceiling (Rudy is old Rudy and we are an elite defense) at about 61 wins. I see everything falling somewhere in the middle and us getting between 50-54 wins. My guess is 51.
 
Updated to remove profanity:


Sure, but there will be both plusses and minuses, every season has them. A player or two will regress. Maybe Johnson is not fully engaged, just trying to tack on $20MM+ before retirement? Lyles gets more PT and is exposed defensively. Energy level drops. There will be some fit or chemistry issues.

CRAP happens in every season and you can't just say "the same stuff that happened last season will be better" without acknowledging that there will be new sets of problems that emerge.

So while I do not believe 52 is out of the question, I think you are a bit optimistic.
 
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I agree with both of these posts. I think it will take more to integrate the new guys and have concerns regarding Exum returning from a major injury so early in his career. Gobert had been somewhat inconsistent and I'm afraid that the other teams will have him scouted VERY well and will make great efforts to negate his defensive presence and exploit his offensive weaknesses. If all the stars perfectly align we might sniff 50. I still think 45-47 wins this season is our ceiling and will not be surprised to see injuries or chemistry issues drag us down a game or 2. So my estimate is still 45 but anywhere between 43 and 47 won't surprise me.
 
I agree with both of these posts. I think it will take more to integrate the new guys and have concerns regarding Exum returning from a major injury so early in his career. Gobert had been somewhat inconsistent and I'm afraid that the other teams will have him scouted VERY well and will make great efforts to negate his defensive presence and exploit his offensive weaknesses. If all the stars perfectly align we might sniff 50. I still think 45-47 wins this season is our ceiling and will not be surprised to see injuries or chemistry issues drag us down a game or 2. So my estimate is still 45 but anywhere between 43 and 47 won't surprise me.


Saying that you think the Jazz will be between 43-47 seems reasonable, I am guessing 48-51 range so its not that far off. But saying that their ceiling (best case scenario if everything goes the best possible way) is 45-47 seems really negative and pessimistic. If every player develops to their max, every player stays healthy, our coaching and play calling is great and our chemistry is great you think the best we can do with this team is 47??? To each his own I guess.
 
Saying that you think the Jazz will be between 43-47 seems reasonable, I am guessing 48-51 range so its not that far off. But saying that their ceiling (best case scenario if everything goes the best possible way) is 45-47 seems really negative and pessimistic. If every player develops to their max, every player stays healthy, our coaching and play calling is great and our chemistry is great you think the best we can do with this team is 47??? To each his own I guess.

Did you miss the part about if the stars are aligned then 50 would be in range? I think wishing for much higher than the high 40's is pie in the sky Pollyanna thinking. You think 45 is pessimism. Tomato tomato.
 
Did you miss the part about if the stars are aligned then 50 would be in range? I think wishing for much higher than the high 40's is pie in the sky Pollyanna thinking. You think 45 is pessimism. Tomato tomato.

You just said tomato twice.
 
You just said tomato twice.

You have to pretend it's being said differently. To-may-to, To-mah-to. I thought that would be self evident and somewhat humorous in a written format. My apologies.
 
[video]https://giphy.com/gifs/week-media-person-RL0xU1daTlMoE

[video]https://giphy.com/gifs/wtf-what-gif-oaZk0WNSO7fXi

Feel free to "participate" elsewhere, if what you do here could be considered participation.
 
One more thing I wanted to address is the impact of the reffing last season. IMO it was nothing short of a travesty. That said I seriously doubt it will be much different this year. I had some long discussions with friends about this during the season last year and I really think the jazz style of play contributes to this. We tend to run more sets to open jump shooters or open lanes to the rim and only really have a couple guys that truly go at the rim, which is where most fouls happen. Now I hope there was a meeting with the reffing staff to mitigate this for the coming season but I still see us being on the short end of the stick in this part of the game.
 
Let me take some time to finally point out why I believe the Jazz will take a major step forward this year and win a significantly greater amount of games than last season. In no particular order...

1) Refs. Recently, someone here on Jazzfanz posted a link (I can't find it) with the number of wrong calls made by refs last year according to the team those calls went against. We were dead last and from what I recall, it wasn't even close. The refs screwed us. Big time. I don't believe it to be some conscious decision on their parts. I just believe that we had really, REALLY bad luck and weren't very respected. General common sense says that luck should turn around. MorEover, I think just having faces like Joe Johnson, George Hill and Boris Diaw will add some much needed respect to our team. WHether we like it or not, names oftentimes get calls, and even if those aren't the guys getting the calls, just having their faces on the bench adds some legitimacy to our team imo. +2 wins

2) Close games. We were awful last year and that's despite having one of the best statistical closers in the league in Hayward. That said, this too should balance out. While we were very unlucky in this regard last year, we should be better this season, perhaps even much better. I recall Kicky saying months ago that over the course of a season (and seasons), these things pretty much balance out (I don't know which thread it was in) and I see it unfolding that way for us this season. That doesn't mean we will be 18-6 in close games. I'm just thinking .500ish or better. If nothing else, the presence of Hill, Johnson and Diaw should really be a calming influence (even if they're on the bench) as games wind down and I think that along with a normal statistical regression helps us win a few more close games. In short, we should be much better here. +3 wins

I agree with most of your post but I wonder if there might be a little double-counting with #1 and #2. The games where refs made the difference would seem to also be the close games. The exception might be if they took one of our players out of the game early on due to bogus or ticky-tack fouls and it just messed us up the whole game.
 
Did you miss the part about if the stars are aligned then 50 would be in range? I think wishing for much higher than the high 40's is pie in the sky Pollyanna thinking. You think 45 is pessimism. Tomato tomato.


If all the stars perfectly align we might sniff 50. I still think 45-47 wins this season is our ceiling


Guess I misinterpreted this to mean that if everything is perfect we will be just under 50 and that number would be 47 as our ceiling... Sniffing something to me means you wont reach it. You will be close but not quite. I also think when someone says a number is the ceiling that does not mean over that number under any circumstances.

I didn't say thinking 45 as our win total number for the season is pessimism. I said it is close enough to what I am saying and many others and seems reasonable guess. What I did say is I think claiming that (45-47) to be best case scenario and our ceiling is pessimism. So I guess its a tomato carrot situation.
 
Let me take some time to finally point out why I believe the Jazz will take a major step forward this year and win a significantly greater amount of games than last season. In no particular order...

1) Refs. Recently, someone here on Jazzfanz posted a link (I can't find it) with the number of wrong calls made by refs last year according to the team those calls went against. We were dead last and from what I recall, it wasn't even close. The refs screwed us. Big time. I don't believe it to be some conscious decision on their parts. I just believe that we had really, REALLY bad luck and weren't very respected. General common sense says that luck should turn around. MorEover, I think just having faces like Joe Johnson, George Hill and Boris Diaw will add some much needed respect to our team. WHether we like it or not, names oftentimes get calls, and even if those aren't the guys getting the calls, just having their faces on the bench adds some legitimacy to our team imo. +2 wins

2) Close games. We were awful last year and that's despite having one of the best statistical closers in the league in Hayward. That said, this too should balance out. While we were very unlucky in this regard last year, we should be better this season, perhaps even much better. I recall Kicky saying months ago that over the course of a season (and seasons), these things pretty much balance out (I don't know which thread it was in) and I see it unfolding that way for us this season. That doesn't mean we will be 18-6 in close games. I'm just thinking .500ish or better. If nothing else, the presence of Hill, Johnson and Diaw should really be a calming influence (even if they're on the bench) as games wind down and I think that along with a normal statistical regression helps us win a few more close games. In short, we should be much better here. +3 wins

3) Injuries/Bench Play. We had somewhere around 170 games missed from our top six players last year. That's about 30 games per player. Months ago, I looked up where we ranked as far as games missed go and I want to say we were fifth worst in the entire NBA. As far as top six players go, I'm not exactly sure but I'd have to think we were one of the worst three teams in the league. I see two possible scenarios this year and in both cases, the team performs much, much better. The first scenario is we are banged up almost equally as badly as last season. However, with our off-season acquisitions, we now have depth and can keep on ballin' without some huge hiccup. Hill gets injured? We have Dante. Burks goes down again? We have Joe Johnson. Favors or Lyles or Gobert go down. Diaw can play some meaningful minutes. And we aren't relegated to bringing in Tibor Pleiss, Chris Johnson and any other ******* for major minutes. That's the worst case scenario. The best case is we have minimal injuries and our 9-10 man rotation is one of the best in the NBA and we now have legit talent on the floor for 48 minutes a night. This should be our biggest aide in improving this season. Talent and depth and (hopefully) fewer injuries. +4 wins

4) Organic growth. Hayward has gotten better every season. He had little to work with last year (due to other's injuries) and still came out as an elite closer at end of games on offense, the #1 ranked small forward defensively (I forget which metric was used here), and was statistically very strong on offense in most ways. Add in what should be a huge leap for Exum (go back and watch SL last August) and at least small improvements in their games from Hood and Lyles and I like the upside of our guys. Then, by all accounts, Favos has worked his *** off, not settling for being a 16.5/8.5 guy and should be a monster this year. Basically, we were the second youngest team in the league last year and knowing that, have a ton of room for organic growth. That's not say I think all of our guys are going to max their potential let alone do so this season. But they should definitely get better. Most of them anyway. +2 wins

5) Vet presences. We needed this. We had basically no one (Booker? Ingles?) to lead, no one to truly hold one another accountable because they'll be listened, no one to teach, etcetera. Johnson, Hill and Diaw should be huge in this way now. + 1 win

That brings us to 52 wins and quite frankly, I think we should be much, much better as far as #2, #3 and #4 go. I see our absolute basement (more injuries, suck in close games again, refs suck again) at about 44 games. I see our absolute ceiling (Rudy is old Rudy and we are an elite defense) at about 61 wins. I see everything falling somewhere in the middle and us getting between 50-54 wins. My guess is 51.

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Relevant to point 1
 
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