FrenchJazzFa
Well-Known Member
I love the connection between Lauri and Mike. We are missing this a lot.
Game Thread Dec 03, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Trail Blazers
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Added to Calendar: 12-03-22
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't think Clarkson is freezing Lauri out or anything. He's just not capable of delivering in to some of the tight passing windows that Conley can.
Clarkson taking a lot of shots isn't really his fault. The offense was stagnant as hell. That's not really on any one individual, it's just the byproduct that happens if you have a Sexton/Clarkson backcourt. Need an actual PG, trade Sexton.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
But he did at the start of the season. From those first 15 assists to Markkanen 12 were to dunks or layups... granted Markkanen did dribble in a few of them.
Last 12 assists were mostly handoffs or short passes at the perimeter where Markkanen shot a 3 or dribbled and drove to the basket. There were 2 passes to cuts that were great, 1 kickout and 1 alley oop layup where Clarkson drove into the baseline to a position where he had no other options.
Step-Back Hook
Well-Known Member
Win by heroball, lose by heroball. Lauri with two turnovers in the end is not good but really, maybe we should go for him before icing him - and then go for him.
Without Mike heroball is our 4th quarter game. 1/9 from downtwn for JC but sure go for it, go, even on cold nights, even if theres a floor full of shooters in KO; Lauri, Beasley.... When we finally involved Lauri in the end he was gotten so cold his touch was gone.
How is this team not understanding for consistent wins we need the ball moving ALL GAME.
When the ball is not moving it shows in energy and effectiveness. movement and touches creates energy. Energy creates success.
Now well, if we had someone who is all-nba ISO god we might win consistently like this.
Without Mike heroball is our 4th quarter game. 1/9 from downtwn for JC but sure go for it, go, even on cold nights, even if theres a floor full of shooters in KO; Lauri, Beasley.... When we finally involved Lauri in the end he was gotten so cold his touch was gone.
How is this team not understanding for consistent wins we need the ball moving ALL GAME.
When the ball is not moving it shows in energy and effectiveness. movement and touches creates energy. Energy creates success.
Now well, if we had someone who is all-nba ISO god we might win consistently like this.
mikka23
Member
Very ugly 4th quarter, but can't really put too much blame on Clarkson. The offense had completely stalled prior to him coming back in the game. To the point it seemed like a struggle just to get a shot off.
Overall a game which highlighted issues with everybody:
- Lauri - very costly turnovers in the 4th and inability to create his own offence
- JC - very ball dominant and ill-advised shots. Also a bit overly emotional leading to some stupid crap on D.
- Beasley - can't hit the side of a barn just now
- Sexton - under control most of the game, but seemed unable to generate offense in the 4th. Also easily scored on in the paint simply due to size.
- KO - probably a bright spot offensively, but was getting killed on D. Switching him off Nurk helped in the 2nd half.
A game you have to give credit to Portland defence down the stretch.
I'd like to see Lauri used a bit more often curling to the basket. Start of the season he was getting some nice looks on the move, leading to fouls and dunks. Lately he has been scoring well but I doubt the shooting is sustainable. He isn't great at taking people off the dribble or just direct posting up from far out. So taking advantage of height means getting it to him closer to the basket, preferably on the move. Having said that, it was also the killer turnover at the end of the game last night
Overall a game which highlighted issues with everybody:
- Lauri - very costly turnovers in the 4th and inability to create his own offence
- JC - very ball dominant and ill-advised shots. Also a bit overly emotional leading to some stupid crap on D.
- Beasley - can't hit the side of a barn just now
- Sexton - under control most of the game, but seemed unable to generate offense in the 4th. Also easily scored on in the paint simply due to size.
- KO - probably a bright spot offensively, but was getting killed on D. Switching him off Nurk helped in the 2nd half.
A game you have to give credit to Portland defence down the stretch.
I'd like to see Lauri used a bit more often curling to the basket. Start of the season he was getting some nice looks on the move, leading to fouls and dunks. Lately he has been scoring well but I doubt the shooting is sustainable. He isn't great at taking people off the dribble or just direct posting up from far out. So taking advantage of height means getting it to him closer to the basket, preferably on the move. Having said that, it was also the killer turnover at the end of the game last night
Scape Goat
Member
Nobody remembers whose defense&block gave Jazz a chance to win the game?
Also, nobody noticed how easily Portland quards went by Clarkson and Sexton to score whenever they wanted.
So to put the blame to Lauri is a joke.
Also, nobody noticed how easily Portland quards went by Clarkson and Sexton to score whenever they wanted.
So to put the blame to Lauri is a joke.
Release the Kraken
Well-Known Member
I have a bit of a different take, but no reason to play the blame game IMO. We’re still in our infancy as a team and still trying to figure out what works - maybe giving the ball to a seven footer 20 feet out on a clear out is not a viable option, particularly when he’s attracting a double team. Same goes for passing to said player as he’s running into traffic. (We really need to work on our inbounds plays anyway).
Let me go on record as saying that for me going iso Mitchell in crunch time wasn’t so much the problem, it was the fact that he never passed off to an open rim runner or three point shooter even when the entire team collapsed on him. Floor Generals should be alphas and the ones creating and directing traffic in crunch time IMO. So for me, that means Clarkson, Sexton, Conley to some extent, and if need be, THT.
We used this formula, with Clarkson and Sexton in the Clipper game, so why we’re going away from a tried and true formula now is beyond me. Laurie is our Star sure, but he’s not Lebron James. Our Floor Generals need to find him in a position of advantage even if it’s just an open spot up three. We should use him much the same way as we used Bogey with the caveat that our floor generals don’t wear blinders like Mitchell did in those situations.
Let me go on record as saying that for me going iso Mitchell in crunch time wasn’t so much the problem, it was the fact that he never passed off to an open rim runner or three point shooter even when the entire team collapsed on him. Floor Generals should be alphas and the ones creating and directing traffic in crunch time IMO. So for me, that means Clarkson, Sexton, Conley to some extent, and if need be, THT.
We used this formula, with Clarkson and Sexton in the Clipper game, so why we’re going away from a tried and true formula now is beyond me. Laurie is our Star sure, but he’s not Lebron James. Our Floor Generals need to find him in a position of advantage even if it’s just an open spot up three. We should use him much the same way as we used Bogey with the caveat that our floor generals don’t wear blinders like Mitchell did in those situations.
HeatCheck
Well-Known Member
They also kept getting Lauri matched on Simons over and over. Was this the result of the zone?
Bottomline is that Clarkson, Beasley, Fontecchio, THT shot a combined 2 for 19 on 3's for a whopping 11%. Teams just can't win that way.
They were wide open on alot of those shots too. Beasley and Simone missed several 3's with no defenders at all in their zip code.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
Lauri inabile to create his own offense? I mean I get "not being able to score at will" but really, inable?Very ugly 4th quarter, but can't really put too much blame on Clarkson. The offense had completely stalled prior to him coming back in the game. To the point it seemed like a struggle just to get a shot off.
Overall a game which highlighted issues with everybody:
- Lauri - very costly turnovers in the 4th and inability to create his own offence
- JC - very ball dominant and ill-advised shots. Also a bit overly emotional leading to some stupid crap on D.
- Beasley - can't hit the side of a barn just now
- Sexton - under control most of the game, but seemed unable to generate offense in the 4th. Also easily scored on in the paint simply due to size.
- KO - probably a bright spot offensively, but was getting killed on D. Switching him off Nurk helped in the 2nd half.
A game you have to give credit to Portland defence down the stretch.
I'd like to see Lauri used a bit more often curling to the basket. Start of the season he was getting some nice looks on the move, leading to fouls and dunks. Lately he has been scoring well but I doubt the shooting is sustainable. He isn't great at taking people off the dribble or just direct posting up from far out. So taking advantage of height means getting it to him closer to the basket, preferably on the move. Having said that, it was also the killer turnover at the end of the game last night
FYI. Lauri received 25 passes the whole game and converted them to 21 points. More importantly, only 1 of those passes came to him in the restricted area.
How do you expect him to create his own offense? Dribble and drive from perimeter like a guard? Not really something you want a 7 footer to do. Btw he has done that in past games pretty effectively. For instance, Lauri ranks 10th in the league in points per iso play at 1.20, while Clarkson has 0.89.
He should get the ball in the post or paint to create offense as a big. If he doesnt, you cant call him out for not creating.
Thats why I'm calling out the guards and especially JC, as he just doesnt pass to Lauri much at all.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
You might be correct that kicking out more could have made it look better. I remember few of those collapses as well where Vando or Beasley were wide open. And Vando was actually hot from 3.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
Lauri is being guarded more closely now and distributing isn't natural to Clarkson and so he reverts to what he is comfortable with when things get tough. I think it makes sense and is fine for now.
Lauri has already taken a huge leap this year from starter to All Star. I'm happy with his growth and not sure how productive it would be to force him in to doing more than the giant leap he's already made. Same thing for Clarkson. He's changed his game a ton and made huge leaps in his play making. It's probably not fair to ask for too much more.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
You might be right and what JC is doing might even be what Hardy asks him to do. But how do you explain him being our leading assister and feeding Lauri less than 4 other guys in our team do? Four. Thats not right.
mikka23
Member
You ended up just agreeing with my statement, so I'm not sure what your point is. The fact is, Lauri is 7ft tall and bigs cannot just be tossed the ball on the wing and told to go to work in the same way as a guard. They are reliant on others to get them the ball in situations which they can take advantage of. So when the offense becomes completely stagnant like last night, you can't just give the ball to him and say go to work (even if he is your best player). My list wasn't an attack on Lauri, more of a description of the various flaws in the team for that game.
Having Conley in there might have got them to run the offense with some motion in the 4th quarter, otherwise you end up relying on Clarkson because he is one of the few people who can penetrate against tough defence.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
The defense is focusing on Lauri leaving the other guys more open, pretty simple.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
You didnt answer the actual question. Or are you saying the defense is only focusing on Lauri when JC has the ball?
Edit:
Just to clarify... what I said was 4 other Jazz players (Sexton, Conley, KO, Vando) have more assists to Lauri than our leading assister.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused on what you think is happening. Clarkson isn't a great passer and so he passes to who is open, which isn't usually Lauri since he's being guarded closely. Are you observing something different when you watch the games? I personally haven't seen Clarkson avoid Lauri on purpose, and don't find that scenario probable based on Clarkson's personality.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
The bench right now is useless if Coach out Quin's Quin and keeps riding guys that are 2-18. It appears to me that Ochai, Dok, Bolmaro and NAW are dead to Hardy. The two two way guys are hurt along with Gay and Conley. This was the second game in less than 24 hours so fatigue might raise its ugly head. Plus Lauri has a sick kid at home so the legs might not be there.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
I just dont see him looking his way. Whether Lauri is open or not really doesnt seem to matter with JC. It could be his tunnel vision but its just curious that he doesnt even by accident get more assists to Lauri seeing he still leads us in that category.
Maybe I just miss their connection from early in the season when Lauri wasnt so closely guarded.
underdog
Well-Known Member
Well, as some have pointed out here, we don’t have a true point guard at the moment and it shows. A true, facilitating point guard, like Conley or young Tyrese we saw on Friday, keeps his head up, reads the court, knowing where his teammates are, looking for the most efficient play, whereas iso guards, like JC and Sexton, are looking for a lane for a drive, thinking about passing mostly only when they get stuck before, during, or after the drive. A big difference in style of play. For our team, its greatest impact is that it prevents Lauri from using his whole arsenal. I find it somewhat surprising that Danny didn’t get another point guard to back up Conley. For me, on a good team, Sexton and JC are role players who come off the bench.
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