Game Thread Dec 03, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Trail Blazers

[SoberasHotRod]

You didnt answer the actual question. Or are you saying the defense is only focusing on Lauri when JC has the ball?

I'm a little confused on what you think is happening. Clarkson isn't a great passer and so he passes to who is open, which isn't usually Lauri since he's being guarded closely. Are you observing something different when you watch the games? I personally haven't seen Clarkson avoid Lauri on purpose, and don't find that scenario probable based on Clarkson's personality.

 

[homeytennis]

The bench right now is useless if Coach out Quin's Quin and keeps riding guys that are 2-18. It appears to me that Ochai, Dok, Bolmaro and NAW are dead to Hardy. The two two way guys are hurt along with Gay and Conley. This was the second game in less than 24 hours so fatigue might raise its ugly head. Plus Lauri has a sick kid at home so the legs might not be there.

 

[HermanG]

I'm a little confused on what you think is happening. Clarkson isn't a great passer and so he passes to who is open, which isn't usually Lauri since he's being guarded closely. Are you observing something different when you watch the games? I personally haven't seen Clarkson avoid Lauri on purpose, and don't find that scenario probable based on Clarkson's personality.

I just dont see him looking his way. Whether Lauri is open or not really doesnt seem to matter with JC. It could be his tunnel vision but its just curious that he doesnt even by accident get more assists to Lauri seeing he still leads us in that category.

Maybe I just miss their connection from early in the season when Lauri wasnt so closely guarded.

 

[underdog]

Well, as some have pointed out here, we don’t have a true point guard at the moment and it shows. A true, facilitating point guard, like Conley or young Tyrese we saw on Friday, keeps his head up, reads the court, knowing where his teammates are, looking for the most efficient play, whereas iso guards, like JC and Sexton, are looking for a lane for a drive, thinking about passing mostly only when they get stuck before, during, or after the drive. A big difference in style of play. For our team, its greatest impact is that it prevents Lauri from using his whole arsenal. I find it somewhat surprising that Danny didn’t get another point guard to back up Conley. For me, on a good team, Sexton and JC are role players who come off the bench.

 

[underdog]

You ended up just agreeing with my statement, so I'm not sure what your point is. The fact is, Lauri is 7ft tall and bigs cannot just be tossed the ball on the wing and told to go to work in the same way as a guard. They are reliant on others to get them the ball in situations which they can take advantage of. So when the offense becomes completely stagnant like last night, you can't just give the ball to him and say go to work (even if he is your best player). My list wasn't an attack on Lauri, more of a description of the various flaws in the team for that game.

Having Conley in there might have got them to run the offense with some motion in the 4th quarter, otherwise you end up relying on Clarkson because he is one of the few people who can penetrate against tough defence.

We also have to remember that non-passing guards are often a big reason for stagnant offenses in the NBA.

 

[mikka23]

We also have to remember that non-passing guards are often a big reason for stagnant offenses in the NBA.

No argument from me on that. I don't see anybody on the current roster who could have turned that around last night though.

 

[HermanG]

We also have to remember that non-passing guards are often a big reason for stagnant offenses in the NBA.

Also the 4th quarter starting lineup was Sexton, Fontecchio, Beasley, Lauri and Kessler. So 2 catch and shoot guys and 2 bigs. Expecting way too much from Sexton there....

Kinda weird move from Hardy.. just like it was to keep KO on the bench and Beasley on the court for as long as he did. After all KO was a bright spot offensively and Beasley was a big net negative in my eyes.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

You might be correct that kicking out more could have made it look better. I remember few of those collapses as well where Vando or Beasley were wide open. And Vando was actually hot from 3.

In today’s NBA teams live and die by the three (which is why it’s so hard to bet on the NBA IMO). Says something about the capability of this squad IMO when we ran into a hot shooting Portland team, particularly Simons who was unconscious, and we shot poorly from three overall but were still in a good position to win till we screwed the pooch with a low percentage play that backfired.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

I just dont see him looking his way. Whether Lauri is open or not really doesnt seem to matter with JC. It could be his tunnel vision but its just curious that he doesnt even by accident get more assists to Lauri seeing he still leads us in that category.

Maybe I just miss their connection from early in the season when Lauri wasnt so closely guarded.

For a short while I wondered if Beasley had made Clarkson his bitch (figuratively speaking) based on the feeds he was giving him. It’s hard to separate social life and work sometimes - those two seem pretty tight.

 

[HermanG]

For a short while I wondered if Beasley had made Clarkson his bitch (figuratively speaking) based on the feeds he was giving him. It’s hard to separate social life and work sometimes - those two seem pretty tight.

Would be interesting to get passing target stats with on/off lineup tool. I agree Beasley gets fed a ton considering his minutes... hot or cold... and that might be where those JC passes are going. That might be the whole issue, instead of cockfighting.

Gotta pay more attention to who JC gives the ball to. I do think he passes it to KO plenty who is kinda like our frontcourt PG at times. But I think thats part of the scheme.

 

[HermanG]

You ended up just agreeing with my statement, so I'm not sure what your point is. The fact is, Lauri is 7ft tall and bigs cannot just be tossed the ball on the wing and told to go to work in the same way as a guard. They are reliant on others to get them the ball in situations which they can take advantage of. So when the offense becomes completely stagnant like last night, you can't just give the ball to him and say go to work (even if he is your best player). My list wasn't an attack on Lauri, more of a description of the various flaws in the team for that game.

Having Conley in there might have got them to run the offense with some motion in the 4th quarter, otherwise you end up relying on Clarkson because he is one of the few people who can penetrate against tough defence.

I understand you werent attacking him. But bigs can create offense even if they dont do it from the wing. That just happens on a different level of the field. Low or high post being a good place to start with back towards basket. Usually short dribble ending with cut to rim, cut and hook on the middle or midrange jumper or fadeaway. Its just as much creating your own buckets as dribble and drive is.

And we did see him drive to the paint with the ball earlier this year. For instance vs Suns he drove in 4 or 5 times from the arc and had a few well drawn and-1s as well. For whatever reason he isnt doing it anymore.

That is on him unless Hardy has for whatever reason told him not to do it.

Edit:
Oh and btw I wholeheartedly disagreed with your statement. You read me all wrong. You talk about dribble and drive as if it was the only way to create your own buckets.

 

[mikka23]

I understand you werent attacking him. But bigs can create offense even if they dont do it from the wing. That just happens on a different level of the field. Low or high post being a good place to start with back towards basket. Usually short dribble ending with cut to rim, cut and hook on the middle or midrange jumper or fadeaway. Its just as much creating your own buckets as dribble and drive is.

And we did see him drive to the paint with the ball earlier this year. For instance vs Suns he drove in 4 or 5 times from the arc and had a few well drawn and-1s as well. For whatever reason he isnt doing it anymore.

That is on him unless Hardy has for whatever reason told him not to do it.

Edit:
Oh and btw I wholeheartedly disagreed with your statement. You read me all wrong. You talk about dribble and drive as if it was the only way to create your own buckets.

Your examples involve others getting him the ball in spots that he can take advantage of which Is exactly what I wrote already. My first post even talked about wanting him used in curls towards the rim more.

So again, I'm not sure what point you disagree with other than the semantics of what generating offense means.