Game Thread Dec 05, 2025 05:30PM MT: Utah Jazz @ New York Knicks

[HadAnEffectHere]

The battle for last in DRtg is going to heat up when the Wizards get Sarr back.

 

[fishonjazz]

It was pretty obviously implied.

Ok, so we agree then. Of course that world doesn’t actually exist, it was a hypothetical.

To be clear, this is also what I want. My original post was intended to bemoan the perverse incentive structure the league has built, not call out people who are pro tank.

Ah but even in your hypothetical world no jazz fan would be happy about getting blown out every game.
Would they choose what they feel is the lesser of two evils? Sure. But you're original post implied that hard core tankers loved that game tonight and would love a bunch more like it.
Not true. If the only options were those made up hypothetical ones then sure, some people work reluctantly choose all the blowouts but they wouldn't be happy about it.

 

[KqWIN]

Svi was 1-8 and -24 in 19 minutes. Are the Jazz certain they can't get that type of production from somebody else?

Nobody can develop if he doesn’t play.

 

[homeytennis]

Can't the Jazz find a good home for Svi so he can run in the fields?

 

[Zombie]

Ah but even in your hypothetical world no jazz fan would be happy about getting blown out every game.
Would they choose what they feel is the lesser of two evils? Sure. But you're original post implied that hard core tankers loved that game tonight and would love a bunch more like it.
Not true. If the only options were those made up hypothetical ones then sure, some people work reluctantly choose all the blowouts but they wouldn't be happy about it.

I think you’re trying too hard to find a disagreement here bud.

 

[Step-Back Lauri]

Holy macaroni, Mario! I think they put cream in the carbonara!

And such a crime was also the way Jazz played.

It's tough though, B2B in NY with one of the crappiest team to follow with one of the grittiest. Put these other way around and it wasn't as ugly

 

[fishonjazz]

I think you’re trying too hard to find a disagreement here bud.

Nah. I think we both agree. No one would be happy if the jazz got blown out every game even if it was the only way to keep our pick.
Some would be happy that we got to keep our pick and would prefer all the blowouts over not getting blown out and losing the pick but they would also hate all the games and the season as a whole.

No one was enjoying the game tonight. Other than knicks fans

I just get annoyed when I see posts that make it seem like tankers are unreasonable psychopaths. Your original post on this discussion came across that way to me.

 

[KqWIN]

Nah. I think we both agree. No one would be happy if the jazz got blown out every game even if it was the only way to keep our pick.
Some would be happy that we got to keep our pick and would prefer all the blowouts over not getting blown out and losing the pick but they would also hate all the games and the season as a whole.

No one was enjoying the game tonight. Other than knicks fans

I just get annoyed when I see posts that make it seem like tankers are unreasonable psychopaths. Your original post on this discussion came across that way to me.

We’ll get blown out with Cody and TH, we’ll get blown out when we’re trying to win like tonight. Part of the absurdity with “winning culture” is we’re a bad team either way. The choice is a a bad team with a pick or a slightly less bad (but still bad) with no pick.

It’s not like deciding between Don+Rudy or tanking.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The choice is a bad team with a pick or a slightly less bad (but still bad) team with no pick.

It’s not like deciding between Don+Rudy or tanking.

This sums everything up perfectly.

 

[Agent#00]

Jazz better hope Hendricks, Cody or bailey somehow turn into mikal or OG.

 

[Zombie]

Nah. I think we both agree. No one would be happy if the jazz got blown out every game even if it was the only way to keep our pick.
Some would be happy that we got to keep our pick and would prefer all the blowouts over not getting blown out and losing the pick but they would also hate all the games and the season as a whole.

No one was enjoying the game tonight. Other than knicks fans

I just get annoyed when I see posts that make it seem like tankers are unreasonable psychopaths. Your original post on this discussion came across that way to me.

Right, my only point was that it’s ****ed up that the league incentivizes their fans to prefer outcomes like tonight over the alternative.

It takes a lot of the fun out of being a fan. Rooting for losses is soul sucking, and you can’t really enjoy a win without constantly being reminded about how bad it is for the tank.

Half the posts in any thread are catastrophizing about the future, not because the team is too bad, but because it’s not quite bad enough. It just sucks man.

 

[Agent#00]

Knicks realgm now asking who was the hot blonde JC was talking too and why hardy still have a job lol. Seems like Kevin loves wife. Kevin and JC are good buddies

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You can’t have one without the other. To my understanding, that’s the mistake the Jazz are currently making - trying to be the most competitive 17 win team in the NBA.

A lot of people here act real stupid when it comes to player development

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Right, my only point was that it’s ****ed up that the league incentivizes their fans to prefer outcomes like tonight over the alternative.

It takes a lot of the fun out of being a fan. Rooting for losses is soul sucking, and you can’t really enjoy a win without constantly being reminded about how bad it is for the tank.

Half the posts in any thread are catastrophizing about the future, not because the team is too bad, but because it’s not quite bad enough. It just sucks man.

Easy answer, get rid of the loss based draft and adopt The Wheel

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Svi was 1-8 and -24 in 19 minutes. Are the Jazz certain they can't get that type of production from somebody else?

If it wasn't Svi more nights would look like tonight.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Right, my only point was that it’s ****ed up that the league incentivizes their fans to prefer outcomes like tonight over the alternative.

It takes a lot of the fun out of being a fan. Rooting for losses is soul sucking, and you can’t really enjoy a win without constantly being reminded about how bad it is for the tank.

Half the posts in any thread are catastrophizing about the future, not because the team is too bad, but because it’s not quite bad enough. It just sucks man.

The league needs to do a better job crafting a better incentive structure, but this is actually the best the incentive structure has ever been, teams and fans are just way more inclined to work the system to its zenith to maximize asset accumulation and timing it right, rather than just wave a foam finger.

I have some suggestions but I don’t think your point is to have a tedious conversation about that. I agree it’s perverse and I hear you but it has a better track record (for teams that aren’t the Lakers) than building from the middle which often produce wacky timelines and builds that deplete their assets before they ever become contenders and inevitably become garbage anyway. Might as well get ahead and own the bad than be depleted and without hope.

 

[rjfan]

The league needs to do a better job crafting a better incentive structure, but this is actually the best the incentive structure has ever been, teams and fans are just way more inclined to work the system to its zenith to maximize asset accumulation and timing it right, rather than just wave a foam finger.

I have some suggestions but I don’t think your point is to have a tedious conversation about that. I agree it’s perverse and I hear you but it has a better track record (for teams that aren’t the Lakers) than building from the middle which often produce wacky timelines and builds that deplete their assets before they ever become contenders and inevitably become garbage anyway. Might as well get ahead and own the bad than be depleted and without hope.

I also think conference imbalance contributes to the problem.

A team construction like the Pacers of last season finals that can happen in the Eastern conference just isn't feasible in the Western conference.

Than at the same time teams in the West do bottom out easier, and then get more bites at the top talent in the draft, which further pushes the conference imbalance.

 

[fishonjazz]

Right, my only point was that it’s ****ed up that the league incentivizes their fans to prefer outcomes like tonight over the alternative.

It takes a lot of the fun out of being a fan. Rooting for losses is soul sucking, and you can’t really enjoy a win without constantly being reminded about how bad it is for the tank.

Half the posts in any thread are catastrophizing about the future, not because the team is too bad, but because it’s not quite bad enough. It just sucks man.

Agreed. I hate tanking. It ****ing sucks

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The league needs to do a better job crafting a better incentive structure, but this is actually the best the incentive structure has ever been, teams and fans are just way more inclined to work the system to its zenith to maximize asset accumulation and timing it right, rather than just wave a foam finger.

I have some suggestions but I don’t think your point is to have a tedious conversation about that. I agree it’s perverse and I hear you but it has a better track record (for teams that aren’t the Lakers) than building from the middle which often produce wacky timelines and builds that deplete their assets before they ever become contenders and inevitably become garbage anyway. Might as well get ahead and own the bad than be depleted and without hope.

Any loss based draft model is going to suck and be stupid.