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Game Thread Dec 12, 2025 06:00PM MT: Utah Jazz @ Memphis Grizzlies

Added to Calendar: 12-12-25

The Jazz's defensive rating for the season with KLove on the court is 140.

One hundred and fourty.

The tank people should be happy Hardy was playing him. Y'all bitch about anything and everything
That’s only part of the story. The Jazz appear to have three primary objectives this season: (1) retain their 2026 draft pick, (2) develop the young core, and (3) determine which players are part of the long-term plan and what roles they should play. The latter two are intermediate steps toward the real goal: sustained championship competitiveness. Playing Love or other veterans in heavy minutes at the expense of younger players may help accomplish the first objective, but it does little to advance the second and third objectives and is therefore less likely to contribute to the long-term goal.

For me -- and I suspect for many other Jazz fans -- the primary reason we’re willing to tolerate intentional losing, at least for now, is if it meaningfully advances all three objectives. That’s a narrow and difficult line to walk, but it’s the line the front office’s roster decisions have imposed. As a result, the front office and Will Hardy damned-well need to be aligned and deliberate in walking it together.

I’m not arguing that Love, Anderson, or other veterans should be benched entirely. Denying them minutes altogether would be disrespectful; they’ve earned a role by virtue of their careers and professionalism. The challenge becomes even more complicated once Niang returns. Is he a potential longer-term piece, or someone the team should look to move as soon as it’s practical? Clarifying those answers requires minutes, but they need to be allocated consistently with the above objectives and goals; NOT because Hardy has come burr up his arse.
 
That’s only part of the story. The Jazz appear to have three primary objectives this season: (1) retain their 2026 draft pick, (2) develop the young core, and (3) determine which players are part of the long-term plan and what roles they should play. The latter two are intermediate steps toward the real goal: sustained championship competitiveness. Playing Love or other veterans in heavy minutes at the expense of younger players may help accomplish the first objective, but it does little to advance the second and third objectives and is therefore less likely to contribute to the long-term goal.

For me -- and I suspect for many other Jazz fans -- the primary reason we’re willing to tolerate intentional losing, at least for now, is if it meaningfully advances all three objectives. That’s a narrow and difficult line to walk, but it’s the line the front office’s roster decisions have imposed. As a result, the front office and Will Hardy damned-well need to be aligned and deliberate in walking it together.

I’m not arguing that Love, Anderson, or other veterans should be benched entirely. Denying them minutes altogether would be disrespectful; they’ve earned a role by virtue of their careers and professionalism. The challenge becomes even more complicated once Niang returns. Is he a potential longer-term piece, or someone the team should look to move as soon as it’s practical? Clarifying those answers requires minutes, but they need to be allocated consistently with the above objectives and goals; NOT because Hardy has come burr up his arse.
Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh
 
The issue I have with the logic is that many pushing the "we need to play the vets so we have a good development environment" are also the same as the "you really think Svi/Love/Anderson/Nurk help us win lolz?" group.

I think you really gotta pick one narrative of those two. If the vets help a development environment its because they are helping us play more functional basketball which is going to produce more winning.
 
"Development" is just a codeword for tanking.

The Ainges want to tank (with two All Star level offensive players).

Hardy wants to win (within the constraints dictated by the FO).

The players, obviously, also want to win, and some of them are playing for their professional lives. They don't want to be replaced by new lottery picks.
 
"Development" is just a codeword for tanking.

The Ainges want to tank (with two All Star level offensive players).

Hardy wants to win (within the constraints dictated by the FO).

The players, obviously, also want to win, and some of them are playing for their professional lives. They don't want to be replaced by new lottery picks.
Do the Ainges want to tank? Do they seen things eye to eye? And how bad do they want to tank?

I think Will would play along if they asked. But absent an ask his job is to win so... I don't blame him.
 
Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh
I don’t disagree. The issue, though, is that veterans are often playing instead of the core young players. Development isn’t just about minutes; it’s about having the latitude to make mistakes and the opportunity to play in meaningful situations, especially closing out games and navigating tight finishes. Consistently leaning on vet-heavy lineups in those moments undercuts that process.

Compounding this is Hardy’s apparent revolving door of players moving in and out of the doghouse, which isn’t ideal for confidence or continuity. Again, I’m not arguing that veterans shouldn’t play at all. But if the goals are to lose strategically, develop the youth, and gain clarity on who fits long-term and in what roles, then allocating significant minutes to veterans who aren't in the team's long-term plans carries a real opportunity cost.

I'd also like to see Harkless get more burn.
 
Playing with competent vets helps the core of the core develop.

We should be playing guys like Harkless over Sensabaugh/Collier while we at it tbh
Last night seemed fine without svi, nurk, and love.
 
I'm wondering If we should have Flip as the starting center more often. Not even as a tanking measure, just talent evaluation wise. Give him those opportunities.
 
I'm wondering If we should have Flip as the starting center more often. Not even as a tanking measure, just talent evaluation wise. Give him those opportunities.
Definitely. We should be trying lots of stuff with all the young guys for evaluation purposes.
Svi, love, and nurk should have been riding way more pine from day 1.
 
Definitely. We should be trying lots of stuff with all the young guys for evaluation purposes.
Svi, love, and nurk should have been riding way more pine from day 1.
For sure we should with all the young guys.

It's just that Flip been jumping the most for me. Even more when he's got these starting nods.
 
For sure we should with all the young guys.

It's just that Flip been jumping the most for me. Even more when he's got these starting nods.
Ya he has looked really good many times this season.
Maybe of our recent draft picks have been looking pretty good pretty often.
Nice to see.
 
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