Dennis Lindsey's Biggest Error

[latin jazz]

Limitations compared to who lol? Favors? Hahahahaha. Millsap is better at everything. Litetally everything. Millsap was a top 3-5 PF for 5 years. But limited.

Que eyeroll

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

To be fair, Millsap is better at many things but Favors is superior at others: protect the rim, rebounding, rolling and finishing around the rim. Remember Favors a couple of years ago? He was a beast. How the NBA became smaller helped Millsap's career (that and his incredible work ethic and versatility)

 

[David Stern]

Here's how I would grade Lindsey as a GM so far:

Roster Building:

Drafting: A
Trades: C
Free Agency: F

I think it's fair to give him a C overall for roster building

Coaching/FO Hires: A

Overall: B

So to me, he's above-average.... but, there's really only three things keeping him from being a really mediocre GM: Mitchell, Gobert, and Quin.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Here's how I would grade Lindsey as a GM so far:

Roster Building:

Drafting: A
Trades: C
Free Agency: F

I think it's fair to give him a C overall for roster building

Coaching/FO Hires: A

Overall: B

So to me, he's above-average.... but, there's really only three things keeping him from being a really mediocre GM: Mitchell, Gobert, and Quin.

Joe Ingles was a free agent and you give him a F?

Good lord.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not to mention he re-signed Ingles on a bargain deal.

 

[checkbookdoc]

To me the biggest mistake was offering Hill $88+ million. Not only is it a bad contract, it would have been bad for a long time. Can you imagine if he had accepted?!!
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...azz-discussing-last-minute-contract-extension

It seems like he has quite the track record of overvaluing his own players (e.g., Hood & Exum extensions).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Next year is DL's free agent test. That's how he set it up. Judging him on free agency this past year is incomplete because he played this free agency to set-up next year's.

 

[LoPo]

To be fair, Millsap is better at many things but Favors is superior at others: protect the rim, rebounding, rolling and finishing around the rim. Remember Favors a couple of years ago? He was a beast. How the NBA became smaller helped Millsap's career (that and his incredible work ethic and versatility)

I have never understood why people ever thought Favors was a beast. He only had three years of his entire career where he averaged over 8 rebounds. Ironically enough, his highest rpg (8.7) was the year after we let Millsap go. You know how many rpg Millsap averaged the season before? You got it, 8.8. Millsap has had 4 years averaging over 8 rpg. He even had one year averaging 9. You also have to consider this - Millsap was used as a ball handler in Atlanta and was taking over 3 3pt's per game. Since Favors has no range, he is actually hanging around the basket a bunch more than Millsap. And, he still didn't get as many rebounds. So no, Favors is not a better rebounder.

Favors has averaged 1.3 blocks per game in his career. Millsap has averaged 1. So I guess you got me on that one although I think it's pretty negligible.

As for rolling, well, I disagree with you there. Millsap can be the one setting the pick AND the one with the ball. He has been that versatile. So maybe Favors finishes at the rim a tad better, but I take the guy who can be on both sides of that fundamental part of the game.

Millsap has been a very good NBA player for the last decade. Favors has just been a solid player. It's too bad he never got a chance to be a starting center. That was his best role. But we should have kept Millsap. Terrible move by DL.

 

[checkbookdoc]

But we should have kept Millsap. Terrible move by DL.

I think calling this decision terrible is a little strong. Probably a mistake in hind-sight, but it wasn't totally crazy at the time. The Jazz were in full rebuild mode and decided to prioritize assessing/developing their young bigs (Favors and Kanter), as well as tanking for the best draft pick. Unfortunately, the one year the Jazz tried to tank we ended up with Exum, but if it had been AG this might look better. Also, the reason Milsap signed a pretty favorable contract in Atlanta is no other team thought he was going to develop like he did. Also of importance, if we keep Milsap we never get Exum, so we never bring in Ingles.

 

[LoPo]

I think calling this decision terrible is a little strong. Probably a mistake in hind-sight, but it wasn't totally crazy at the time. The Jazz were in full rebuild mode and decided to prioritize assessing/developing their young bigs (Favors and Kanter), as well as tanking for the best draft pick. Unfortunately, the one year the Jazz tried to tank we ended up with Exum, but if it had been AG this might look better. Also, the reason Milsap signed a pretty favorable contract in Atlanta is no other team thought he was going to develop like he did. Also of importance, if we keep Milsap we never get Exum, so we never bring in Ingles.

You make good points. I do want to add - I'm not a big fan of the domino effect of decisions. I just want to focus on one without guessing that the others would or wouldn't happen.

The Millsap decision was simply a poor decision from an X's and O's perspective. It doesn't take a seasoned coach to see that Favors and Kanter were redundant. Both are more traditional big men who lack range and great post up games. However, Millsap was agile and competent enough that our coaching staff even tried him at SF. When he left, I knew we were in trouble because Favors and Kanter didn't spread the floor. And we drafted Gobert on top of it. So then we had 3 players who couldn't spread the floor.

Of that list presented at the beginning, letting Millsap go was far and away the biggest mistake. In my opinion, it was terrible mistake at that time AND an even bigger mistake in hindsight. One could compare that mistake to the one we are making right now by re-signing Exum and Neto to go with Rubio even though we know none of those guys spread the floor or finish at the rim. If we decide to keep Exum AND Rubio this offseason, it is very similar to keeping Kanter and Favors instead of bringing in a different option.

 

[Jazz4ever]

While I was in favor of keeping Millsap, he was not a floor spacer at the time. Less than one 3pt attempt a game and at 33% his last year here. Even in Atlanta he couldn't crack 36% under an elite coach in Budenholzer.
Millsap wouldn't help with our floor spacing woes.

 

[LoPo]

While I was in favor of keeping Millsap, he was not a floor spacer at the time. Less than one 3pt attempt a game and at 33% his last year here. Even in Atlanta he couldn't crack 36% under an elite coach in Budenholzer.
Millsap wouldn't help with our floor spacing woes.

If we added Millsap right now for Favors, we would be a better team. He's just a better basketball player.

 

[JFFR]

The biggest mistakes fit into two buckets for me:

- Not using cap space for anything meaningful over multiple years. This is the one I have had the most trouble with. In years we'v had space we've punted. We haven't made the best of exceptions that are available.

The cap mistakes are much bigger mistakes imo. In a small market using the cap well is huge and it's the biggest part of the equation we have missed on.

His first two to three years in Utah he talked about how great of a financial situation the Jazz were in. He sold us all hope and said that when the time came the Jazz would spend the money. Then he failed to cash in because the TV money kicked in the same time the Jazz were supposed to spend money. All of a sudden every team had extra money and the Jazz didn't have an advantage (he actually played that summer really well because he didn't over spend on anyone. But I'm still bitter about him talking about the future financial flexibility for all those years.)

He fooled us all.

 

[NUMBERICA]

While I was in favor of keeping Millsap, he was not a floor spacer at the time. Less than one 3pt attempt a game and at 33% his last year here. Even in Atlanta he couldn't crack 36% under an elite coach in Budenholzer.
Millsap wouldn't help with our floor spacing woes.

****ing bull ****.

Millsap hate around here sure has some die hards. Does it ever cross any of your undersized(tm) minds that he has arguably been the Jazz's best pick since 2006? Of course it hasn't.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Millsap needed to leave at the time. The franchise wanted to rebuild. We just should have done it earlier and traded him with Jefferson.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would say that's probably the biggest Jazz franchise error that isnt comletely hindsight (like you should have drafted "x player" because he's a superstar). The Jazz should have truly tanked and done it earlier. The Corbin years were a complete waste due to management of the roster.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Millsap needed to leave at the time. The franchise wanted to rebuild. We just should have done it earlier and traded him with Jefferson.

Should've traded Jefferson as soon as they could've, should've re-signed Millsap and Carroll.

Sure, it's hindsight to know that the "fruit" of the tank then was Dante Exum and that Gobert could've been had without trading up with anybody. Same goes with Rodney Hood. And acquiring Joe Ingles.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Should've traded Jefferson as soon as they could've, should've re-signed Millsap and Carroll.

Sure, it's hindsight to know that the "fruit" of the tank then was Dante Exum and that Gobert could've been had without trading up with anybody. Same goes with Rodney Hood. And acquiring Joe Ingles.

Yeah, but I'm saying if they tanked earlier, the fruits could have been Anthony Davis/Kyrie Irving.

They should have shipped everyone who could help win games that wasnt young out when D-Will was traded. That's Millsap/AK/Reroute Devin Harris/Jefferson/Miles/Bell.

I know that's hindsight, but pretty much everyone knew a team based around Jefferson was a dead end and they were bringing in vets like Josh Howard for soem reason.

 

[Jazz4ever]

****ing bull ****.

Millsap hate around here sure has some die hards. Does it ever cross any of your undersized(tm) minds that he has arguably been the Jazz's best pick since 2006? Of course it hasn't.

What is bull ****? Do you even know what you're arguing about anymore? He is a 33% career 3 point shooter. He had two outlier years in Atlanta, but overall he is a low volume, low % shooter.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Millsap needed to leave at the time. The franchise wanted to rebuild. We just should have done it earlier and traded him with Jefferson.

I think they tried to, but probably were only offered expiring contracts with second rounders. I was fine with what he did at the time because what he did with the space matched our trajectory at the time.

To get a first I think he would have taken on money... which he eventually did... and got a first for it.

 

[NUMBERICA]

What is bull ****? Do you even know what you're arguing about anymore? He is a 33% career 3 point shooter. He had two outlier years in Atlanta, but overall he is a low volume, low % shooter.

For starters, your point is some flailing non-sense about how Favors and Millsap are an apples vs. oranges conversation. Millsap is better. He is, he almost always has been. He's always been much more skilled than Favors.

How does is shooting an eFG% of 50% on 3s equal to or worse than what Favors provides - jack ****ing squat?