Dennis Lindsey's Biggest Error

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Roy_McAvoy, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Roy_McAvoy

    Roy_McAvoy Active Member

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    Let me preface with the fact that I think Dennis Lindsey is a good GM and I'm glad to have him. He's still made some mistakes though. Which one was his biggest? Was it,

    -Drafting Trey Burke over CJ McCollum?
    -Betting that Hayward would resign with the Jazz?
    -Drafting Tony Bradley over various other players?
    -Letting Millsap walk?
    -Standing pat in free agency in 2018 and not being pro active about trying to improve the team.
    -Drafting Dante Exum
    -Drafting Grayson Allen instead of trading down and then taking Allen or someone like Mitchell Robinson early in the 2nd round.
    etc..

    I argue it wasn't any of those. I think there were stronger arguments for each of those at the time that hindsight made it look worse.

    To me, it was not trading a 1st round pick that became Grayson Allen for Nikola Mirotic when he wanted to come to the Jazz and was on a good contract.

    The Bulls traded him & a 2nd round pick for New Orleans 1st rounder, Omar Asik, Jameer Nelson, & Tony Allen. I firmly believe the Jazz could've beat that offer without involving Favors. Mirotic would be the perfect fit on the Jazz right now and would be a key piece when the team has potential to be really good but is missing a piece. It was a missed opportunity due to Lindsey being content to stand pat.

    He's averaging 19 & 11 while shooting 35% from the 3 with 7 attempts per game this year. Ouch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018

  2. zyzz

    zyzz Well-Known Member

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    The Jazz were 22-28 on the date this trade happened. We had no idea the Jazz were good at that point. Imagine how pissed people would be if the Jazz traded a lottery pick for Mirotic and we still sucked. I don't think Chicago would have taken a Jazz lotto protected pick, since New Orleans's pick was more likely to convey.
     
  3. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    id say not trading millsap and not pushing for mirotic. in general, staying pat way too often, especially this last offseason
     
  4. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member

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    The draft errors can happen to anyone. He's had more big hits than total whiffs.

    I even understood the Niko thing. Picks are valuable... there was a chance we could have gotten Niko without the 1st rounder.

    The biggest mistakes fit into two buckets for me:

    - Not using cap space for anything meaningful over multiple years. This is the one I have had the most trouble with. In years we'v had space we've punted. We haven't made the best of exceptions that are available.
    - Hayward related short sighted moves. The Hill trade was fine... I was supportive and he was good but hurt. Letting Hayward have say when he had not committed to the franchise was tough. Ricky is worth the pick in a vacuum... but the fit has always been rough. I understand what he was trying to do... I appreciate he went "all in" he just didn't know Hayward was so wishy-washy. That isn't all on him.


    The cap mistakes are much bigger mistakes imo. In a small market using the cap well is huge and it's the biggest part of the equation we have missed on.
     
  5. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure they would have taken the pick. They dangled him for a while before finding a taker.
     
  6. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member

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    I think they kicked the tires on Mirotic for a while. I think they concluded that he was a poor defender (i.e., a poor man's Kevin Love) and that he'd hurt the defensive identity that the Jazz had been building. Plus they wanted to keep their first-round pick, given that they were in the lottery at the time.
     
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  7. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2018 Award Winner

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    OP gets it.

    DL is a top 3 GM.

    Niko no-deal will haunt us. I need to dig up some posts I made a year ago about revisionist history would go from “oh he’s not consistent / not worth it” to “oh there’s no way we could have landed him.” That’s beginning to play out.

    Unfortunately there’s like 100 pages in that Niko thread.

    ETA: here's some stuff from the Niko thread February 4th...

     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  8. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

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    Not drafting Giannis, which is probably every GM's biggest **** up who could have drafted him.
     
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  9. Jazz4ever

    Jazz4ever Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Exum, I think DL actually liked Aaron Gordon better. We had him in here for two workouts and all signs on him seemed positive. Then Orlando through us a curveball and drafted Gordon over Exum. Lindsey now had to choose between a big he worked out but didn't love, like Randle or Vonleh, or go for the hail marry with Exum. Needless to say, the hail marry came up about 15' short of the end zone.
     
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  10. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    See, and that's what I didn't get. We knew Gobert/Favors didn't work, and we had plenty of good defense to cover him up a bit. It really was a chance worth taking.
     
  11. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    Right, and I'm confident he would have taken Gordon if he was there. I think not taking Smart was a mistake.
     
  12. RickyStan

    RickyStan Member

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    A couple from this offseason irked me:
    1) Choosing Thabo over Jerebko

    2) Not signing Bjelica when he wanted to come here. A playmaking, shooting 4 would have been just perfect.
     
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  13. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    I have full confidence in DL, his track record is stellar. He's gotten the big things 100% right:

    Drafting Gobert and Mitchell
    Ingles
    Hiring Snyder

    But. I'd grade him a B/B- as an exec. He's made some small and big mistakes:

    Not trading Millsap for something knowing full well he'd walk.
    Catering to Haywood with the Hill trade - how much better would we have been if we'd kept Prince?
    The Kanter pick
    I'd argue the Exum pick
    Not maximizing cap space beyond just having it

    The Jazz could contend. But, they need a third star and more scoring, especially shot creation.
    Mitchell and Ingles can't do everything.
     
  14. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

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    Ehh, I think I prefer Exum to Smart.

    I wish Exum was more aggressive, but I wouldn't want him to be as aggressive as Smart.

    I don't consider Exum a mistake. The Jazz just got ****ed.
     
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  15. David Stern

    David Stern Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to say his biggest error was not extending Hayward after his rookie contract. The whole "go out and find an offer for us to match" was pretty dumb, especially considering there were reports before that season that he would've resigned for 12-13 million per year. We could've also had him an extra year, which would've been nice.
     
  16. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    Excellent selection. That is for sure top 3 at minimum
     
  17. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    Beyond his speed and length, I really did not see the appeal. He was so raw and inexperienced,
    and honestly I think he hasn't gotten much better. If he doesn't make a leap soon he'll be a bench
    player.

    Smart just seemed like a Jazz guy to me - tough defense, aggressive, scoring potential if not shooting.
    I mean the Gordon pick screwed up the whole draft, and a lot of it is hindsight, of course.
     
  18. 8

    8 37 Contributor

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    I really liked prospect Exum. I though he had great playmaking instincts. Unfortunately, he is still prospect Exum.
     
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  19. campaignist

    campaignist Active Member

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    excellent summary
     
  20. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but no guarantee Hayward stays long-term if he stays another year.
     
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