Discussion of what comes next

[NAOS]

Draft is done. What are the next roster-constructing moves?

Will Davis be on the team?

Will Clarkson be re-signed?

We created some room with the Bradley trade, so will we be signing another player?

Which players from the deep bench last year are getting cut?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Draft is done. What are the next roster-constructing moves?

Will Davis be on the team?

Will Clarkson be re-signed?

We created some room with the Bradley trade, so will we be signing another player?

Which players from the deep bench last year are getting cut?

Think Davis stays. Reports are he is a great teammate. I'm sure they will look to trade him, but they won't use any assets to move him.

 

[NAOS]

@Handlogten's Heros

I need your cap knowledge. Did the Bradley trade clear enough room that we can re-sign Clarkson and use a fair amount of the MLE?

If they don’t target a wing defender this offseason, then they can ****ing kiss my ***.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

@Handlogten's Heros

I need your cap knowledge. Did the Bradley trade clear enough room that we can re-sign Clarkson and use a fair amount of the MLE?

If they don’t target a wing defender this offseason, then they can ****ing kiss my ***.

I have thoughts... I also have a lot of phone calls today... you will get all my thoughts though... and I have so so many thoughts.

Bring a fire extinguisher cuz there are gonna be some flaming hot takes.

 

[NUMBERICA]

They couldn’t dump Davis last night. He’s here.

They better try to keep Clarkson.

Some non-sense on the fringes will occur that will change nothing.

That’s the offseason.

Moving forward, we can’t trade a pick and probably won’t draft in the first round for two years. If all goes according to plan (Donovan and Rudy get massive raises and stay) we have no chances to get better besides getting extremely lucky. Good thing we have Conley for one more season or overpay to keep him.

 

[str8line]

I think we drafted a couple of players who were good in college but won't be so good in the pro's. Jingles is about to fall off a cliff. Rudy and Donovan ****ed their relationship. Clarkson is great, hopefully we keep him. Bojan should be as good as last year hopefully. Our bench is meh.

Wish I could say I'm excited but I think we've missed our window of opportunity, maybe even squandered it. We played it like it's 2000 and the game has changed. Should have drafted McDaniels.

 

[Joncolton]

I think the Jazz calculated that bench defense was the biggest reason for the drop off in production when the bench came in. They are probably right, if you add another scorer and play maker next to Jordan Clarkson - the Jazz probably have enough points off the bench to win a lot more games.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This doesn't exactly fit the premise of the thread. Short answer of what comes next is exactly what was behind us. I'd just like to pontificate on how we ****ed up and how we will try to fix the **** ups over the next year.

1- We drafted a traditional big that is really big. We need a backup center no doubt... the issue is rookies picked outside the top 10 are rarely ready to anchor the defense of a playoff team. So what comes next... well either Ed Davis and his great locker room presence will **** up the offense and defense for 12 minutes a night, we will sign a vet minimum guy we could have brought in like Alex Len and he will be the band aid solution, or we will try Juwan at the 5. If Udoka comes in and is better than a replacement level big then great... you hit the sloppiest of singles. I'd say there is like a 25-30% chance Udoka is better than Len next year. So we likely used a first on our 3rd string center, but in a year or two we will have a great backup center... hopefully. This sounds familiar... hmmm

2- Everyone praising the salary dump of Udoka Tony Bradley should know a couple things...

We never should have picked up his option. He was never going to get paid more than 3.5m on the open market. We had him for 2.5 years and said "yes give us more, but also we are signing Ed to definitely play in front of him." This is a disturbing trend for DL... he's either so locked into his guys that he can't see they suck or aren't a relevant player type or he's a ****** judge of talent. You decide which it is and which is worse.

Second we could have saved the same amount of cap by simply waiving and stretching Ed. We saved about 1.7M in cap room (3.5M for Tony minus a minimum replacement level player). Exact same is saved with a waive and stretch of Ed. Problem is that would cost some actual money (still have to pay the $5M). In the Tony trade we got cash... cash that people are saying will be used to retain JC... damnit this sounds familiar... oh yeah DL always talking about selling picks for cash then saying that cash was used in the program and so and so is the guy that program found so great use of assets... Okay but good teams don't operate that way. If you can use actual cash to free up cap space you do that instead of use draft assets to save cap.

3- They executed their plan. Great job... been hearing this one too... so we lock into a plan and execute it. But what if in that plan there are better opportunities along the way and we need to be flexible? We tend to lock in and only do things we are familiar with. We overpay for Mike because that was our guy. We draft Tony Bradley and trade up to do it because that was our guy. We give up umpteen firsts for a pg because we need a pg. We stick with the clogged toilet starting lineup because those are our guys. We circle back to guys we tried to get a while ago because those are our guys. DL seems to really think he needs certainty and appears to not be nimble enough to not lock into one free agent, prospect, trade target. This is troubling.

I remember hearing an owner of a baseball team talk about a GM he had that suggested they sign reliever vet X and the owner saying yeah no **** we should do that... I can tell you that guy is good... I need you to tell me the next version of that guy we can get for cheap not that we should overpay for the vet reliever X.

This plan extends to the coaching staff too and the sex machine offense RIP @infection we do this one thing that these other teams are doing and it will work because of math and science. Then when the league figures it out... well ****. Teams can't play different defensive schemes... we do our scheme with our guys.

4- We don't have the trade assets for player xyz in a trade so its not DL's fault. Guess what... it is. If you draft Derrick White or Josh Hart instead of Tony Bradley that is what we call an asset. So last night we take Udoka. Let's say he's young Clint Capela but that we need some perimeter help or a shooting big. What team gonna give you something awesome for a traditional center? Take the sexy wing that plays okayish in the G league and a GM will talk themselves into giving veteran X that you need at the trade deadline.

TLDR - So where we headed you say? Turn around because we are headed exactly where we been. We will find out Udoka ain't ready, we will try Ed to start the season, it won't work because he sucks, we go to Udoka... he's better than Ed but still not good, Morgan looks okay but then he isn't a drop big guy and we can't play a different defense, we try to get a trade done but no one wants our stuff, Jazzfanz says it isn't fair to judge DL because the guys he drafted and brought in don't work and no one wants the guys he drafted... oh wait.

 

[str8line]

This doesn't exactly fit the premise of the thread. Short answer of what comes next is exactly what was behind us. I'd just like to pontificate on how we ****ed up and how we will try to fix the **** ups over the next year.

1- We drafted a traditional big that is really big. We need a backup center no doubt... the issue is rookies picked outside the top 10 are rarely ready to anchor the defense of a playoff team. So what comes next... well either Ed Davis and his great locker room presence will **** up the offense and defense for 12 minutes a night, we will sign a vet minimum guy we could have brought in like Alex Len and he will be the band aid solution, or we will try Juwan at the 5. If Udoka comes in and is better than a replacement level big then great... you hit the sloppiest of singles. I'd say there is like a 25-30% chance Udoka is better than Len next year. So we likely used a first on our 3rd string center, but in a year or two we will have a great backup center... hopefully. This sounds familiar... hmmm

2- Everyone praising the salary dump of Udoka Tony Bradley should know a couple things...

We never should have picked up his option. He was never going to get paid more than 3.5m on the open market. We had him for 2.5 years and said "yes give us more, but also we are signing Ed to definitely play in front of him." This is a disturbing trend for DL... he's either so locked into his guys that he can't see they suck or aren't a relevant player type or he's a ****** judge of talent. You decide which it is and which is worse.

Second we could have saved the same amount of cap by simply waiving and stretching Ed. We saved about 1.7M in cap room (3.5M for Tony minus a minimum replacement level player). Exact same is saved with a waive and stretch of Ed. Problem is that would cost some actual money (still have to pay the $5M). In the Tony trade we got cash... cash that people are saying will be used to retain JC... damnit this sounds familiar... oh yeah DL always talking about selling picks for cash then saying that cash was used in the program and so and so is the guy that program found so great use of assets... Okay but good teams don't operate that way. If you can use actual cash to free up cap space you do that instead of use draft assets to save cap.

3- They executed their plan. Great job... been hearing this one too... so we lock into a plan and execute it. But what if in that plan there are better opportunities along the way and we need to be flexible? We tend to lock in and only do things we are familiar with. We overpay for Mike because that was our guy. We draft Tony Bradley and trade up to do it because that was our guy. We give up umpteen firsts for a pg because we need a pg. We stick with the clogged toilet starting lineup because those are our guys. We circle back to guys we tried to get a while ago because those are our guys. DL seems to really think he needs certainty and appears to not be nimble enough to not lock into one free agent, prospect, trade target. This is troubling.

I remember hearing an owner of a baseball team talk about a GM he had that suggested they sign reliever vet X and the owner saying yeah no **** we should do that... I can tell you that guy is good... I need you to tell me the next version of that guy we can get for cheap not that we should overpay for the vet reliever X.

This plan extends to the coaching staff too and the sex machine offense RIP @infection we do this one thing that these other teams are doing and it will work because of math and science. Then when the league figures it out... well ****. Teams can't play different defensive schemes... we do our scheme with our guys.

4- We don't have the trade assets for player xyz in a trade so its not DL's fault. Guess what... it is. If you draft Derrick White or Josh Hart instead of Tony Bradley that is what we call an asset. So last night we take Udoka. Let's say he's young Clint Capela but that we need some perimeter help or a shooting big. What team gonna give you something awesome for a traditional center? Take the sexy wing that plays okayish in the G league and a GM will talk themselves into giving veteran X that you need at the trade deadline.

TLDR - So where we headed you say? Turn around because we are headed exactly where we been. We will find out Udoka ain't ready, we will try Ed to start the season, it won't work because he sucks, we go to Udoka... he's better than Ed but still not good, Morgan looks okay but then he isn't a drop big guy and we can't play a different defense, we try to get a trade done but no one wants our stuff, Jazzfanz says it isn't fair to judge DL because the guys he drafted and brought in don't work and no one wants the guys he drafted... oh wait.

Rudy is the key. With Ed and Udoka we can still get **** done... if we can bring in someone who replaces Rudy's lost defense with extra offense, especially since Ed and Udoka can provide partial replacement of Rudy's defense. So who needs Rudy?