DL and Quin Snyder Rift

[jom2003]

Let me think he had Morgan, Brantley, Ersan, Matty Ice, Hughes, Dok and Forrest. Would they have lost the 2nd half by 37 in game 6?

I mean how do you know they wouldn't? We've already got starters(including three allstars) who took us all the way to top seed finish in the regular season and still lost that 2nd half by 37.

And those end of bench scrubs who didn't do jack **** for us in the regular season are just supposed to all of a sudden come onto the floor in what is thought to be our most important game of the season and do better? What stats do you have to back it up, other than fans wishful thinking that they know better than the professionals who are paid eight figures to make judgement on players?

I mean at least we've got valid stats and reasonings to criticize DL for missing the obvious during the offseason, but there simply isn't a valid lineup other than what Quins already put on the floor that is gonna guarantee a better outcome. Had Quin put a different lineup out there, guys like Andy Larsen would still criticize Quin for making the unnecessary tweak to his rotation and not trusting his star players in difficult situations that cost us the series.

 

[Getting Traded]

Yeah. You see but don't understand. And I'm done explaining it to the morons. Suffice it to say when was ayton expected to defend the opposing team's hot scoring guard and defend the paint at the same time? If you can't figure it out from that, you're hopeless and clueless.

Well, I saw Lopez guard Trae Young man-to-man today outside the 3-pt line and stop him from penetrating -- Brook Lopez, yes. Rudy not only didn't try hard enough on his contests, but caused several turnovers that allowed the Clips to get back in the game.

 

[porfavors]

Is in ability to adjust when something different is done by opponents is biggest problem of Quin. If he continue than we need a different playoff coach at end of season.

 

[jom2003]

Is in ability to adjust when something different is done by opponents is biggest problem of Quin. If he continue than we need a different playoff coach at end of season.

Again, we don't have that “something different” when you have a FO that only wants to double-down or even triple-down on things we already have. Tell me what different things does Doke bring onto the table exactly that is different from Rudy or Favs? What different things does Ersan or Morgan do that is different from Niang or Bogey? What does Hughes or Thomas do differently compared to Donovan/Clarkson?

I'd start criticizing Quin's ability to adjust when there is indeed "something different" like 3D wings, perimeter defenders or switchable small ball 5s available from our bench and he refuse to use them. But until then, it's all fans wishful thinking on stuff that isn't really there.

 

[LogGrad98]

Well, I saw Lopez guard Trae Young man-to-man today outside the 3-pt line and stop him from penetrating -- Brook Lopez, yes. Rudy not only didn't try hard enough on his contests, but caused several turnovers that allowed the Clips to get back in the game.

So Brooke Lopez' primary assignment was Trae young? Crazy! We saw Rudy switch into random players lots of time with great success. If Lopez was the primary defender on young for an entire half that's impressive.

If not then you have exposed yourself as a moron so kindly gtfoh with your **** takes on it.

 

[Getting Traded]

So Brooke Lopez' primary assignment was Trae young? Crazy! We saw Rudy switch into random players lots of time with great success. If Lopez was the primary defender on young for an entire half that's impressive.

If not then you have exposed yourself as a moron so kindly gtfoh with your **** takes on it.

Stop with the moronic comments. What I'm pointing out is that if Lopez can stop a Trae Young penetration from that far out on even one occasion that suggests that Rudy should be able to do better on contesting the 3's, that is he needed to put more effort into it. If he was tired, then Quin should've rested him and probably played Morgan who I think would've been better at guarding the perimeter than Favors. So why don't you be more respectful instead telling me to GTFOH, a-hole.

 

[fishonjazz]

If by "different looks" you mean Ersan, Brantley, Doke or Hughes, I don't know what else to tell ya.

I bet if Quin didn't play Niang a single minutes in that clippers series, JFZ would have gone wild. "NO NIANG??? WTF WAS QUIN THINKING???"

But cuz he did play so now JFZ is mad on Quin for playing him.
"PLAYING NIANG??? WTF WAS QUIN THINKING. !!!"

Different look doesn't simply mean playing different players.
A zone is also different for example.
So your answer seems to be no

Like I said, apples to oranges

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[fishonjazz]

"Double down" is a very accurate word to use here cuz you keep saying Quin should've tried something different. But what "different" things do guys like Ersan, Hughes, Doke, Morgan or Thomas bring onto the table exactly? If anything, they only bring us the lesser version of Rudy, Niang, Favs, Bogey or JC which got us killed in the first place.

By "something different" it means athleticism, physicality, switchability, perimeter defense. And none of those are given by the players that you mentioned. "Know your personnel" is the key here. It's like picking two bottles of poison. You know you gonna die either way, so Quin gave up. I know it looked bad. But at least the man had a point here. In the end, its still DL’s double-down strategy that deserves the blame here.

Something different:
1. Zone defense
2. Telling Rudy not to help. Stick with his man
3. Telling Clarkson, bogey, Conley, Mitchell, etc to sag off their man to prevent penetration instead of running them off the 3 point line and into the paint so Rudy has to come help.
4. Try some small ball of your own like Ersan at the 5. Couldn't be any worse.

I thought of those 4 different looks/adjustments just on the defensive end while watching the game in real time. Quin did nothing.

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[fishonjazz]

i mean it's real easy to point the finger at the coach when we lose a game. After all, any gameplan that resulted in a L is a bad one. If Quin subbed in Favs or Ersan and the Jazz still lost, then people would instead criticize Quin for making bad/unnecessary adjustment and not trusting his star center that costed us the game.

In fact, that's exactly what Andy Larsen said in G4.

But if he did that at least you would have a defense in this argument that quin did nothing.
When I say quin did nothing you could be like "he tried a different lineup when we were getting killed with Rudy out there" but he didn't so you can't. Just have to take the L in this discussion.

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[fishonjazz]

Well, I saw Lopez guard Trae Young man-to-man today outside the 3-pt line and stop him from penetrating -- Brook Lopez, yes. Rudy not only didn't try hard enough on his contests, but caused several turnovers that allowed the Clips to get back in the game.

Rudy could do that that too (and did)
What Rudy (and Lopez and every player on the NBA) can't do is be in the paint and on the perimeter at the same time. Physics simply don't allow that to happen

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[homeytennis]

I mean how do you know they wouldn't? We've already got starters(including three allstars) who took us all the way to top seed finish in the regular season and still lost that 2nd half by 37.

And those end of bench scrubs who didn't do jack **** for us in the regular season are just supposed to all of a sudden come onto the floor in what is thought to be our most important game of the season and do better? What stats do you have to back it up, other than fans wishful thinking that they know better than the professionals who are paid eight figures to make judgement on players?

I mean at least we've got valid stats and reasonings to criticize DL for missing the obvious during the offseason, but there simply isn't a valid lineup other than what Quins already put on the floor that is gonna guarantee a better outcome. Had Quin put a different lineup out there, guys like Andy Larsen would still criticize Quin for making the unnecessary tweak to his rotation and not trusting his star players in difficult situations that cost us the series.

You're right. Quin is a genius and so much smarter than the great unwashed masses that inhabit this board and he is so much smarter than the Clippers coach, Throwing a different look wouldn't have worked and the Jazz would have probably lost the half by 60 points because you nailed it about Quin's geniusness. I just keep thinking for a smart guy Quin is pretty dumb. If he were the manager of a grocery store he would have been canned long ago because he keeps rewarding mediocrity and poor play be doing the same thing over and over.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Can we get this thread back to DL leaving? Why in the **** has this not happened yet? We waiting for him to get back from the Combine?

The Combine schedule says it runs from the 21st through 27th. But the games were done yesterday. What the hell is scheduled for today and tomorrow?

 

[Hekate]

Something different:
1. Zone defense
2. Telling Rudy not to help. Stick with his man
3. Telling Clarkson, bogey, Conley, Mitchell, etc to sag off their man to prevent penetration instead of running them off the 3 point line and into the paint so Rudy has to come help.
4. Try some small ball of your own like Ersan at the 5. Couldn't be any worse.

I thought of those 4 different looks/adjustments just on the defensive end while watching the game in real time. Quin did nothing.

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To be fair.

Zone defense wasn't very feasible. Jazz lack size on the perimeter to show limbs and cut off paths. Clips would still penetrate and then it's the same story.

2. I would have liked us not to expect superhuman effort from Rudy but then open lay-ups.

3. I think the game plan at first was if you get beaten recover to Rudy's man after he stops the drive. We have done it successfully throughout the series and game 6 for stretches. But the jazz perimeter defenders never recovered in the 3rd. Some of it was Clips were faster and played with purpose, Jazz didn't match that. If the Jazz sag off they have capable players that could pull up from 3 or use the space.

4. Ersan would be hunted. If we were not going to help. I would rather play Rudy as he is simply the better defender.

Quin's hands were tied with personnel and all the bad habits surfaced. I thought we we improved this season. I even said that I liked how Rudy was flying to contest 3s because he trusts the players behind him more.

 

[LogGrad98]

Stop with the moronic comments. What I'm pointing out is that if Lopez can stop a Trae Young penetration from that far out on even one occasion that suggests that Rudy should be able to do better on contesting the 3's, that is he needed to put more effort into it. If he was tired, then Quin should've rested him and probably played Morgan who I think would've been better at guarding the perimeter than Favors. So why don't you be more respectful instead telling me to GTFOH, a-hole.

Man you are so clueless it's hilarious. Yes of course one single decent defensive stand is exactly the same as and entire defensive assignment for an entire half. You know I once saw Niang stop Kawhi, stood right up to him, held his ground, forced a bad shot. So I guess that means we should have had niang on kawhi every single possession, you know since he showed he was the kawhi stopper and all. That worked out well didn't it? Your logic is ridiculous and just shows either a very heavy negative bias or just really ****** basketball iq.

 

[LogGrad98]

To be fair.

Zone defense wasn't very feasible. Jazz lack size on the perimeter to show limbs and cut off paths. Clips would still penetrate and then it's the same story.

2. I would have liked us not to expect superhuman effort from Rudy but then open lay-ups.

3. I think the game plan at first was if you get beaten recover to Rudy's man after he stops the drive. We have done it successfully throughout the series and game 6 for stretches. But the jazz perimeter defenders never recovered in the 3rd. Some of it was Clips were faster and played with purpose, Jazz didn't match that. If the Jazz sag off they have capable players that could pull up from 3 or use the space.

4. Ersan would be hunted. If we were not going to help. I would rather play Rudy as he is simply the better defender.

Quin's hands were tied with personnel and all the bad habits surfaced. I thought we we improved this season. I even said that I liked how Rudy was flying to contest 3s because he trusts the players behind him more.

None of that is fair at all. It's just excuses. When you are getting your face pounded in it's stupid to say "well I could use my keys to try to poke this guy, but he blocked my punch pretty good so that probably won't work. Oh and I could try kneeing him in the crotch, but you know he's bigger than me so it probably won't connect. I suppose I could try to run, but he's probably just faster than me. Huh, guess I'll just sit here and get my face pounded in, because, to be fair, none of that will probably work anyway."

No, you do every ****ing thing in your power to stop the bleeding. Quin did exactly none of that. Why not at least try it? Might give your team new energy to show that you have some fresh ideas. Sometimes when the team looks beat the best thing the coach can do is be the guy with different things to try rather than just saying "well, **** it, we're beat. Just try harder I guess."

 

[Hekate]

None of that is fair at all. It's just excuses. When you are getting your face pounded in it's stupid to say "well I could use my keys to try to poke this guy, but he blocked my punch pretty good so that probably won't work. Oh and I could try kneeing him in the crotch, but you know he's bigger than me so it probably won't connect. I suppose I could try to run, but he's probably just faster than me. Huh, guess I'll just sit here and get my face pounded in, because, to be fair, none of that will probably work anyway."

No, you do every ****ing thing in your power to stop the bleeding. Quin did exactly none of that. Why not at least try it? Might give your team new energy to show that you have some fresh ideas. Sometimes when the team looks beat the best thing the coach can do is be the guy with different things to try rather than just saying "well, **** it, we're beat. Just try harder I guess."

Eh, if you are weak, you are getting pummeled regardless. I like the idea of throwing different things to throw them off their game but that only works if you can actually execute the schemes. Every scheme requires to put some resistance to ballhandlers, Jazz simply couldn't. Unless you don't play Bogey, Mitchell, Clarkson, Ingles heavy minutes, you aren't getting much of anything on defense even if you have Rudy and Royce busting ***.

Jazz got unraveled quite fast, may be you can blame Quin for not preparing the players for the mental side of it. I don't know how that would be fair, though.

Also I am all for changing coaches. 7 years is a lot and his voice may be lost, players may need something else.

Also, the keys in this situation:

 

[fishonjazz]

To be fair.

Zone defense wasn't very feasible. Jazz lack size on the perimeter to show limbs and cut off paths. Clips would still penetrate and then it's the same story.

2. I would have liked us not to expect superhuman effort from Rudy but then open lay-ups.

3. I think the game plan at first was if you get beaten recover to Rudy's man after he stops the drive. We have done it successfully throughout the series and game 6 for stretches. But the jazz perimeter defenders never recovered in the 3rd. Some of it was Clips were faster and played with purpose, Jazz didn't match that. If the Jazz sag off they have capable players that could pull up from 3 or use the space.

4. Ersan would be hunted. If we were not going to help. I would rather play Rudy as he is simply the better defender.

Quin's hands were tied with personnel and all the bad habits surfaced. I thought we we improved this season. I even said that I liked how Rudy was flying to contest 3s because he trusts the players behind him more.

All of those things I suggested MIGHT not have worked. Doing nothing at all was CERTAIN not to work.


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[fishonjazz]

Eh, if you are weak, you are getting pummeled regardless. I like the idea of throwing different things to throw them off their game but that only works if you can actually execute the schemes. Every scheme requires to put some resistance to ballhandlers, Jazz simply couldn't. Unless you don't play Bogey, Mitchell, Clarkson, Ingles heavy minutes, you aren't getting much of anything on defense even if you have Rudy and Royce busting ***.

Jazz got unraveled quite fast, may be you can blame Quin for not preparing the players for the mental side of it. I don't know how that would be fair, though.

Also I am all for changing coaches. 7 years is a lot and his voice may be lost, players may need something else.

Also, the keys in this situation:

Using timeouts better would have been another thing I would have tried

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[homeytennis]

When we were bleeding from the artery bigly, sitting the starters and inserting the scrubby scrubs may have worked if for no other reason that it would cause the Clippers and the coaches to pause and think a bit rather than just react. A lot of people are treating the end of the bench guys like they are Special Olympians and the last I heard they were official NBA players.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

All of those things I suggested MIGHT not have worked. Doing nothing at all was CERTAIN not to work.


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Cant' agree more. We had a losing strategy and we stuck to it for 4 straight games. We KNOW the playoffs are about moves and counter moves. Even though Quin said we countered with different looks, none were that far from our 'system' and what we trust.

Put yourself in Quin's shoes. You're the coach. You have 4 chances to advance to figure out the puzzle and advance to the western conference finals. Do you honestly keep doing the same thing in the game 3 after halftime? How about game 4? How about games 5? Surely not on game 6 with your 4th loss in a row for the first time all season!?!?!? Well, that's what we watched.

I would have made wholesale changes to try to get something from my team.