DL 'starting' to look like a genius ....

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not extending him over a one million per year difference when he was eligible is super dumb. If you like him at 12M then coming up to 13M shouldn’t be a big deal.

Anyone projecting the cap and the wing scarcity should have known he’d get the max. Even if he wasn’t a “max” player. It was a bad miss by the front office.

 

[Utesnjazz]

Will you offer the max to someone who shot .413 from the field and .304 from 3? Easy to forget that Haywood was coming from a bad year and wasn't really close to a be "sure thing". Like the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20.

I think the context matters. If he is the player you are building around does it matter? They decided to make him the ”star”. Dennis should have extended him with the max in that scenario. Hayward would still be on the roster today, if Dennis wasn’t trying to be cheap

 

[Tak]

I think the context matters. If he is the player you are building around does it matter? They decided to make him the ”star”. Dennis should have extended him with the max in that scenario. Hayward would still be on the roster today, if Dennis wasn’t trying to be cheap

Haywood was gone the minute Brad Stevens got a coaching gig in the NBA on a team not named Jazz.

 

[DasJazz]

Hayward was nowhere near a max player the first time around during contract time. What is with this revisionist history? Also, it was totally KOC's call to tell him to go get a contract and let the chips fall where they may to match it. It took Hayward nearly half if not 2/3rds of his career to be capable on the same level that our current rookie is playing at. Think about that for a moment.

 

[franklin]

Most out here don't understand the salary cap and what was about to happen. We should have just given him the 4 year max rather than making him hunt down an offer sheet. It was obvious to those that understood what was happening to the cap that he'd get a max or close enough to it that making him hunt it down would be a mistake.

This isn't true. I was virtually the only person on here trying to explain the salary cap and why Hayward was likely to get much higher than most wanted, and was called a troll by several prominent posters for doing so. Back then, the vast majority wanted him for as much as $11-12mm. Even I, one of his only supporters, only thought he'd get upwards of $14-15mm based on potential growth, but nobody was calling for the max regardless of understanding of the upcoming cap explosion. Hayward simply did not show any signs during that previous year that he was worth a max deal. That was 100% based on potential growth that wasn't likely but he had a Sr. year blossom after getting paid.

Jazz did nothing wrong by him by saving a bit of cash that he hadn't yet earned. But yeah, I think that soured the bitch.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This isn't true. I was virtually the only person on here trying to explain the salary cap and why Hayward was likely to get much higher than most wanted, and was called a troll by several prominent posters for doing so. Back then, the vast majority wanted him for as much as $11-12mm. Even I, one of his only supporters, only thought he'd get upwards of $14-15mm based on potential growth, but nobody was calling for the max regardless of understanding of the upcoming cap explosion. Hayward simply did not show any signs during that previous year that he was worth a max deal. That was 100% based on potential growth that wasn't likely but he had a Sr. year blossom after getting paid.

Jazz did nothing wrong by him by saving a bit of cash that he hadn't yet earned. But yeah, I think that soured the bitch.

You weren't alone... I was one of the few that was saying they should match the contract when the consensus was it would turn into the AK contract.

You said exactly my point... most on here didn't understand what was happening, but NBA experts, agents, and GMs knew. DL misdiagnosing things is different than us Jazz Spazzes. If I knew the cap was going up 50% and you basically couldn't sign a bad deal then GMs should have known as well.

Then we used all those dollars we saved to acquire tale.... oh wait we sat on our space/flexibility and did nothing of mention with that extra million or so we tried to save.

It was a fail on DL's part and sucks. He is still a good GM and this stuff happens sometimes.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not extending him over a one million per year difference when he was eligible is super dumb. If you like him at 12M then coming up to 13M shouldn’t be a big deal.

Anyone projecting the cap and the wing scarcity should have known he’d get the max. Even if he wasn’t a “max” player. It was a bad miss by the front office.

I thought he was getting like 16-17 million on his max contract not 13 million.

 

[fishonjazz]

Hayward was nowhere near a max player the first time around during contract time. What is with this revisionist history? Also, it was totally KOC's call to tell him to go get a contract and let the chips fall where they may to match it. It took Hayward nearly half if not 2/3rds of his career to be capable on the same level that our current rookie is playing at. Think about that for a moment.

Ya, he has had one year total in his career so far that is even close to worth a max contract. That one year could be an outlier/fluke.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I thought he was getting like 16-17 million on his max contract not 13 million.

I was referring to his extension negotiations.

 

[fishonjazz]

You weren't alone... I was one of the few that was saying they should match the contract when the consensus was it would turn into the AK contract.

You said exactly my point... most on here didn't understand what was happening, but NBA experts, agents, and GMs knew. DL misdiagnosing things is different than us Jazz Spazzes. If I knew the cap was going up 50% and you basically couldn't sign a bad deal then GMs should have known as well.

Then we used all those dollars we saved to acquire tale.... oh wait we sat on our space/flexibility and did nothing of mention with that extra million or so we tried to save.

It was a fail on DL's part and sucks. He is still a good GM and this stuff happens sometimes.

But imo you could still sign a bad deal that year. If Hayward continued to put up trey Burke style numbers and was getting paid max money (even if that max wasn’t particularly devastating to your cap) then I would consider that a bad deal. He ended up having one year worthy of the money he was getting.

Imo it’s always a bad idea to pay crappy players lots of money. Hayward was a crappy player the year prior to his max.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But imo you could still sign a bad deal that year. If Hayward continued to put up trey Burke style numbers and was getting paid max money (even if that max wasn’t particularly devastating to your cap) then I would consider that a bad deal. He ended up having one year worthy of the money he was getting.

Imo it’s always a bad idea to pay crappy players lots of money. Hayward was a crappy player the year prior to his max.

He was never crappy though. The year we could have extended him for 13M a year he was like 14/3/3 while shooting 43% and 41% from the line... the next year his 3 point shooting dipped and turnovers increased. He raised his reb and assists to 5/5. He always played good defense too... He did enough other stuff and was a good enough sample as a shooter to know he would have a huge market.

 

[franklin]

You weren't alone... I was one of the few that was saying they should match the contract when the consensus was it would turn into the AK contract.

You said exactly my point... most on here didn't understand what was happening, but NBA experts, agents, and GMs knew. DL misdiagnosing things is different than us Jazz Spazzes. If I knew the cap was going up 50% and you basically couldn't sign a bad deal then GMs should have known as well.

Then we used all those dollars we saved to acquire tale.... oh wait we sat on our space/flexibility and did nothing of mention with that extra million or so we tried to save.

It was a fail on DL's part and sucks. He is still a good GM and this stuff happens sometimes.

Fair enough take and one I have as well in hindsight, but I'm an armchair GM and not somebody who is surrounded by a multi-million dollar budget designed to assess talent, so it's not like fans could imagine Gortat Haywood would become what he has, even though DL ultimately believed in him and said he would matching any offer. That was petty of the Utah F.O. IMO, and something the Spurs have been known for doing to rookies - Rookies can sign for something like 5 or 20 % above the salary limitation, I don't remember the exact details, but the point is that San Antonio has been pretty much the only team to sign late first rounders to lower salary. That sort of thing can get players salty and I think not giving Haywood 7.5% raises had something to do with The Minor Decision.