Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Thriller, May 9, 2017.

  1. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Banned

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    i think obummer and bush usherred in the post truth era. so far whether you agree with trump or not he seems to keep his promises. as far as congress or activist judges allows.
    jeruzlame embessay, tax cuts, supreme court nomination, he tried his darnest to undo obama care.

    but i think bush and obama lied more in 1 month than trump leid in his whole presidency! and to me it seems when trump lies it seems exaggeration or figure of speech
     
  2. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    obviously.....

    yes, in Keynesian theory govt deficit spending in recessions was supposed to be made up by paying down the debt in the better times.

    I see the inflationary increments of increased money/velocity as a sort of tax on real assets.

    I don't know much about the government, really. I've spent my life evading it. Built a business that is only viable because of it, though. If govt regulations were abandoned en masse, I wouldn't have a profitable business.

    I'm not a serious farmer. A little this, a little that. Nothing that ever takes me in looking for a loan or signing up for some program that's supposed to benefit. I also don't hire illegals.... well, anyone for that matter.

    I would favor a govt. with the idea of improving the physical circumstances of people in terms of water, power, roads, rails, canals..... fundamental research. Projects of that sort put people to work, hopefully gainfully.... in terms of higher technologies, more efficient commerce.....
     
  3. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    obviously.....

    yes, in Keynesian theory govt deficit spending in recessions was supposed to be made up by paying down the debt in the better times.

    I see the inflationary increments of increased money/velocity as a sort of tax on real assets.

    I don't know much about the government, really. I've spent my life evading it. Built a business that is only viable because of it, though. If govt regulations were abandoned en masse, I wouldn't have a profitable business.

    I'm not a serious farmer. A little this, a little that. Nothing that ever takes me in looking for a loan or signing up for some program that's supposed to benefit. I also don't hire illegals.... well, anyone for that matter.

    I would favor a govt. with the idea of improving the physical circumstances of people in terms of water, power, roads, rails, canals..... fundamental research. Projects of that sort put people to work, hopefully gainfully.... in terms of higher technologies, more efficient commerce.....
     
  4. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    Why LMFDO? I'm not a lawyer but this seems to start the creation of a slander and libel case against the author, the publishing company, and the news outlets publishing this trash. I wouldn't touch this book with a ten foot pole if I were the publisher. They're begging for a very expensive long and drawn out lawsuit from Trump. Trump is doing LMFDO Trump with this move: he can't do anything but benefit either financially or politically or media mentions.

    The book is clearly trash hearsay bull ****, and nobody should respect anything like this. It's typical snake oil salesman populist propaganda - hey Wolff, cool you took a page out of Trump's own campaign. Besides, all this does is further Trump's agenda of showing the trash media for the trash it is. So, go for it and get your *** sued off and career ruined.

    I'm off to read Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Deepak Chopra, and some left-wing hysteria debunking articles like those found on Slate.
     
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  5. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't hang my hat on the idea that Trump is any kind of truther. He believes nothing, considers strong beliefs inconsistent with good deals.

    I think it is hilarious that you take him so seriously. Yah, he doesn't believe in anything the progressives have been hanging their little dedicated, sincere beliefs on.

    But that is because those things you've believed are, obviously, lies. Globalist lies, progressive lies, socialist lies.... even "
    science lies".

    If there were any kind of fundamental truth to those beliefs, you could just relax. The truth will out soon enough, and the sooner the issue is taken out of politics, the sooner the truth will prevail.
     
  6. Gameface

    Gameface I actually REALLY like Gobert! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    I love how you project whatever you want Trump to be on Trump, as if you know anything about him in any sort of substantive way.
     
  7. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    Well, I have to take you to task when you get overboard with your world view, even if I know your stance in advance. You are incorrect about this, however:

    Define "real assets". I would define it as cattle, land, homes, and any company that produces something or is a service. All of those "real" assets benefit from inflation, as do anyone with a home if they have half a brain. Since you like to quote old things, a couple follow.

    Inflation is democratically beneficial, if managed reasonably. It can be a benefit or a curse (Dave Ramnsey nonsense). That's the reason the Federal Reserve Act was enacted. "You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold" - William Jennings Bryant, 1896. If you have assets on loan then you benefit from inflation. If you have "real assets" owned outright then you can easily benefit from inflation.

    If you want to go Mo, here's Joseph Smith Jr.'s call for basically exactly what we have now as a Federal Reserve system, but 69 years earlier (dude was really either extremely forward thinking or divinely inspire):

    -1844

    Back then, the country had seen a whole lot of bankster shenanigans and decided enough was enough. There was plenty of debate, as would be the case in any developing and non-perfected system, but at the end of the day the democrats won by bringing in a system that would benefit the masses instead of the greedy bankers. It's worked pretty damn well outside of the Great Depression oof that we've learned our lesson from (just like we did with the Weimar war reparations).
     
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  8. JazzGal

    JazzGal Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I personally do not think that Trump wanted to be president up until the time he won and his ego took over. However, I do believe that the Russians wanted him to win and all of the people around Trump wanted him to win. That is how I reconcile both claims.

    I doubt I will read it as I'm not typically a fan of gossipy books about celebrities. While there is likely to be a lot of truth in it, it will be impossible to tell where the truth ends. I do not believe that Trump has the right personality and intelligence to be president, but since he is, there isn't much I can do about it. All I can do is hope that he doesn't get people killed in his ineptitude. Anything else can likely be recovered in time.
     
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  9. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    I've known some people who are/were very much like him in some respects. Some of them were billionaires, some were relatives.

    categorically, I reject the "news" as in the bought-and-paid-for "Press". Interests speak and work for themselves. I guess I'll have to include Breitbart in that class historically up until now. Will be interesting to see what they do in the future.

    objectively, the truth is hard to come by but it is "out there" for those who care to put it up front in their discussions.

    When Trump announced is candidacy, I read in the "news" that he called the Clintons..... people he had no difficulty supporting with megabucks political donations, and people he does not want to prosecute for anything they did..... and got an appointment with the CFR chief to discuss his plans. A lot of his picks for gov positions are in the "club". He is not an outsider, but he does think we've been doing a lot of nonsense, at least when considered from the aspect of our national pocketbook.

    People who join in the attack to dump Trump seem to me to have lost their minds. If you can't give a guy a square deal, you have no business claiming to be an American. He won the election. Americans will within reason give a President due respect.
     
  10. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    @franklin

    well, we do have to pay taxes on inflationary gains.......

    I like Dave Ramsey. Something about the paid-for life. I think it works better for us all, keeps our heads straight about stuff.

    gold/silver are commodities. Due to improved technologies we recover mineral values across the spectrum of elements, rare earths are practically as valuable as gold. We have had a sort of Rockefeller idea about resources.... mine theirs first.... for a hundred years now.

    currently, mines do fair business at $17/oz silver and $1200/oz gold. Price fixing just doesn't work.
     
  11. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    Phew. You have absolutely not a clue what I was talking about. Try contemplating what a post truth environment is, and what the consequences are in a democratic society. Think, for heaven's sake.

    Realize that Trump uses his endless litany of alternative facts for two purposes: to maintain the support of his base and to further the goal of repeating a lie often enough to become accepted as truth. Do you know one blessed thing from Authoritarianism 101? Did you even take civics in high school?

    The administration just folded its election fraud commission. Which was initiated in the first place to bolster his demented belief that he could not possibly have actually lost the popular vote in 2016, therefore there must have been widespread voter fraud, specifically in California, but his surrogates had them being bused into New Hampshire as well from Ma., when, of course, no such thing was happening.

    He believes nothing?!?! What the hell kind of a human being believes nothing? Get real at least. You have no idea what I was talking about, so you reply with meaningless statements? Was creating an election fraud commission one of his good deals, based on a belief, or what? And please recall, it's just one of enough flat out lies in the past year to easily fill a book. Lie after lie after lie. It's insane. Dumb as dirt and a pathological liar. Good thing he's only a reality TV star and I don't have to take him so seriously. Oh, wait....

    I listened to most of his campaign rally speeches. Do you know what stood out? The man is dumber then dirt!

    Yep, Wolff's book took some liberties, by many accounts. But he also has tapes of many of his interviews. And it will help lead us to that point of critical mass, where we finally realize we put an incurious dope at the head of our government. Indeed, the emperor has no clothes. Hell, I've known that since the day he descended the escalator and announced!

    Lol, you missed the point entirely where the Post Truth world of Trump was concerned. Think! Take a class in civics, why don't you, and don't worry about my "progressive" values.

    And I'm not even touching on his loathsome character. Good grief, if this is the best you can do, think a little before you type...
     
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  12. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    "Even science lies." Of course!

    I knew this attitude had a familiar ring to it. I believe, but you can correct me if I'm off base, that you have all along expressed a world view that matched well with the world view of your hero, Trump. And that world view is that of a conspiracist. Consensus reality itself is a conspiracy. Certainly Trump has promoted that attitude. It certainly sounds like you do as well? No wonder you cannot possibly understand where I'm coming from if I lament the dawn of the Post Truth era. You live in that world.

    This article suggests the Post Truth era has only increased the appeal of even the wackiest of conspiracy theories. Such as the Earth is flat. Trump may not have latched onto this particular conspiracy, but it is enjoying a resurgence, and I think it's symptomatic of a rejection of any and all authority that is also fundamental to Trump's pitch, and part of the appeal he holds over a percentage of his base.

    This may seem off topic, but Trump himself is part of this broader movement rejecting received wisdom everywhere. He may as well be a flat earther, he's no stable genius, that's for sure.

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...h-is-the-ultimate-conspiracy-youtube-facebook

    "But the deeper I got into the underground Facebook communities, YouTube channels, and blogs where flat earthers congregate, the more it seemed anything but benign. This is a group of people who have entirely reconstructed their universe out of self-righteousness and spite for authority. It is a worldview where dissent is demonized and pride supersedes fact. The flat earth movement is a look into a post-truth future and a canary in the coal mine of our political discourse"....

    "......As I’d come to find out, the shape of the world is only half the story of flat eartherism. It is also a full assault on authority and its trappings. Resurgence of the idea had traditionally coincided with watershed moments in history beginning with the Protestant reformation, then the Industrial Revolution, and seemingly again now."
     
  13. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    It's really very simple. You have bought a load wholesale, nevermind what I think that smells like. You believe in an imaginary political reality. Anyone who doesn't buy your load you deem a worthless, less than human sort, with no rights that should be protected.

    Fascism always reduces to this basic political reality. You dehumanize those who don't buy your load. Your rhetoric has no boundaries formed by any fact. If someone says Trump lies, or did wrong in any way, the political process has to be scrapped and fixed according to your specifications.

    Reasonable people harbor doubts about themselves and whatever ideas are thrown around. Reasonable people try to be practical, for some like Trump it is important to create a new narrative. Obama was the worst liar in POTUS history, Hillary would have been even worse. The Bushes not far behind. Bill soft-pedaled it, but he still followed a basically false poltical line of belief.

    Some people, like Trump, when hammered by fanatic ideologues, believers in a politics that has proven repeatedly to be dismal failure, try to be nice and say something different. If Trump sincerely believed some line of ideology,say like Ted Cruz pretended to do, I might think is is dumb, or worse, dangerous.

    But he is neither of those.

    The dumptrump craze is a direct attack on the American political process, and a direct attack on whatever human rights people still have.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. Ashamed for believing things that are not true, things put out by political interests contrary to American principles of government.

    For all I know, Trump is a closet traditional FDR democrat..... the kind of democrat that is unwelcome in a fascist extreme party wholly owned by a few hoity-toity smoozers who care for nobody.

    Trump won the election.

    By the rules, even whatever the dem party hacks may have tried to do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  14. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    You have lost your mind, really....imo of course. You cannot stay on topic, and you have such a vast supportive leftists/whatever media resource.

    It's very simple. Science is not politically partisan, as once conceived of as a method for proceeding by ruled conduct towards objective facts.

    Anyone who claims "global warming" is a political fact that justifies carbon credits, massive marketplace interferences, redistribution of wealth, taxes for the UN, or similar "emergency" measures, is going beyond science, making that base of whatever objective measurements, a false issue. Hence. a "science lie". You're in the same boat with the flatearthers who somehow believe the Bible or whatever requires that belief.

    The Roman Catholics got in that same boat to denounce Galileo, and other reformation intellectuals. A lot of fundamentalist Christians are in your boat too. Because a belief requires supporting conclusions, along with lots of extrapolations, you have joined the whole lot of ignoramuses.

    Now the ambient atmospheric temps and carbon dioxide and other pollutants look real enough. Could be ten years out we'll understand things better. But it is insanity to disrupt the whole of human activity with such huge transfers of power and wealth to the political elements who intend to exploit it for their own gain.

    It looks to me like we have an extended interglacial warming still hanging on, but we've been here before, within a degree or two, in every interglacial warming. Prudent to be concerned. More prudent to do some practical, realistic things that will help. Oh, like some nuclear power plants like Russia, China,India, Brazil and number of smaller countries are building....yes..... which will rely on the Uranium Hillary gave away for personal payola.

    Have you considered renting a rubber-walled room with no windows? I just don't know how you'll ever learn to think things through on your own./
     
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  15. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    Balderdash. Anybody who doesn't buy my load where Trump is concerned is missing something, and has the same rights as me. That's pretty simple as well. It is your hero Trump who lies closest to fascism. And is it not amazing that you do not realize that? I find it amazing. I love the impossible division, it makes my head hurt. The man is so far beneath whatever dignity the office still conveys, we put an incurious dolt, and worse, in that office.

    25th amendment if Mueller doesn't get him first. And I'm going easy on the guy.

    You don't buy my load. OK, I don't expect you would. Do you honestly feel I regard you as a "worthless, less then human sort, with no rights that should be protected"? Say what, lol. I'm a bleeding heart, babe, remember? I think we are all spiritual beings on a human journey. Truly. I'm not trolling you when I say that. Regardless of what I think of your serious overestimation of the greatness of Donald Trump, and it's out there, we are all spiritual beings on a human journey. As far as I'm concerned, life really is the stuff of which dreams are made. I'm just trying to understand the plot while I'm alive.
     
  16. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    Scathing to a degree,it might be a pretty spot on review of "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump Whitehouse". From NPR.

    https://www.npr.org/2018/01/06/5760...f-fire-and-fury-maybe-a-little-less-substance


    "In response to Trump's claim that Fire and Fury is a "phony" book, Wolff said, "My credibility is being questioned by a man who has less credibility than perhaps anyone who has ever walked on Earth at this point." It's a classic Trumpian move — not addressing the actual criticism, while maintaining that your enemy is way worse. "Media is personal. It is a series of blood scores," Wolff notes at one point. Apparently.

    So read it, sure — but as the commercials say, only "as part of a balanced diet." Much of the narrative is not substantively different from information found in other reporting on the president. But many other reporters have been restrained and careful where Wolff is shameless. Facts, Wolff appears to think, have done nothing to hurt Trump — so he is fighting spectacle with spectacle."
     
  17. Gameface

    Gameface I actually REALLY like Gobert! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Fantasyland

    Population babe

    end of discussion
     
  18. green

    green Well-Known Member

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    Not me. If I was a publisher, I'd be all over this book. Trump will whine, which will drum up publicity, which will sell books.

    And if I was a liberal, I'd pray to my not quite real god every day that Trump did sue. Open that piece of **** up to discovery (which is why he never lets his lawsuits get that far. Dude is corrupt as **** and if it every leaks, he is done). He will blow his hot air and then move on.

    The man is insane. I honestly, truly feel bad for those who voted for him. You have the pieces of **** who voted for him, who have screwed themselves over royally, because they live off the government handouts Trump is getting rid of, and you have the honestly, religious people, who very silly-ey believe that democrats are of the devil, who sold out all their morals to prevent a democrat from winning, thereby leaving behind everything they stand for in order to prevent a liberal from taking office.

    Very ironic and must be internally devastating.
     
  19. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Trump is not, in my view, either a liar or egoist. He's gotta have an incredible sense of humor. He might not feel it's necessary, or even possible, to carefully, factually, reasonably, honestly, conscientiously refute things said which are on their face political fantasy...... which no doubt he believes is all his critics have.

    Trump is merely a sort of iconoclast breaking the political idols of the past fifty years of our unreasoned, self-immolating march towards globalism....... our politicians have been deliberately working to make America merely an unpresumptive meek little member of the family of nations. MAGA is a direct frontal assault on all that. And I think it's high time, and I support Trump whatever his warts or foibles for anything that goes in that direction.

    @green..... trying really hard to be a good LDS, minding all the rules and expectations..... will destroy real faith. Unless you can, or are willing to try to, make LDS membership an outgrowth of personal searching and conscientious convictions, you can only be a faint-hearted camp-follower. Like most liberals are really just comfy feel-good social trendsniffers trying to fit in with the world. Being a liberal is sorta like being a social Mo.

    Fun stuff/ human capacity for independent opinion on display.
     
  20. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    fixed.
     

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