Is it possible to filter out entire pages where Dalamaintnuthin comes in and ****s on a thread? It's gone beyond ridiculous at this point.
Dumb pig cops getting smarter?
- Thread starter HighlandHomie
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Is it possible to filter out entire pages where Dalamaintnuthin comes in and ****s on a thread? It's gone beyond ridiculous at this point.
jimmy eat jazz
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I see this kind of argument used frequently on internet discussions. To paraphrase: Well, if so and so hadn't [cite illegal activity here], then the cops would't have had to blow him away. It's his own damn fault. Or, as in Michael Brown or Treyvon Martin, they cite the victim's general thugishness or other character flaws to demonstrate that he had it (being killed by cops or wanna-be cops) coming to him.
(Yes, I'm a masochist, I do read discussion threads on internet articles, just in case someone says something useful I hadn't though of before, but they usually descend into conservative/liberal shouting matches with all going for the 'gotcha' post.)
The precise reason we need a police force is that people engage in illegal activity, so I think it's taken as a given in most cases that police involvement in a situation implies some kind of illegal activity going on. So what does even mentioning this really prove? Other than (in many cases) giving people pre-disposed to dislike the victim for some reason (e.g., race or other garden variety bigotry) to excuse the disproportionate use of force by police officers or to imply somehow that the victim had it coming to him/her.
I'm not saying this is true of you LogGrad (in fact I've seen nothing from you to lead me to believe that it is), but I do believe it's true of many other people. It's hard to escape that conclusion when you see it being used over and over and over again in contexts that make the biases/bigotry of the users clear (despite their desire to use this reasoning to mask their bigotry).
LogGrad98
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I fully acknowledged that the cop was way out of line, so that part does not apply to me. But the reverse of that is what I find galling.
I just don't get it. Why are SO many people trying SO hard to excuse illegal activity. And how can so many people refuse to acknowledge the other side of the coin. (Jimmy did acknowlege it so not really aimed at him, in fact it is as much from people not on this forum that I get this kind of argument the most).
This is not a one or the other kind of thing. Both are valid.
The cop was WAY out of line and should pay for his actions. The kids were engaged in illegal activity and should pay for their actions.
Why is that so hard to see? But so many people want to shout the first statement from the rooftops, light the torches and lead the charge against the Monster, and brush the other under the rug. It doesn't (or shouldn't) work that way.
Dude, illegal activity?
They didn't break down the fence of a neighborhood pool. Someone had access to the pool and threw a post graduation party. Tons of people showed up, annoyed the neighbors who called the cops and the cops showed up.
Like I said, start a thread about a pool party that got out of hand and let's see how exciting that discussion gets.
You're blowing it way out of proportion acting like these were a bunch of law breakers. Likely they got invited to the pool party by the person who had every right to use the pool (maybe they didn't have the right to invite 300 of their closest friends, we'd have to check the by-laws). So the cops show up and shut it down, that doesn't make everyone there a criminal.
But's let's talk about what the kids did. I'll gladly participate.
LogGrad98
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I had read conflicting reports. The last one I read was that the kids were at a community pool and were causing a disturbance that involved violence and refused to leave. That is illegal activity. So with the information available at the time we first started discussing this, my point was valid. Of course, in general it is too. Don't do illegal things, don't open the door for further problems. And it does get old people using bad behavior from other people to justify other bad behavior. And I was initially responding to alt claiming I was using that position to justify violent behavior from police, which I was not.
And I disagree that you can so easily separate the 2 things. So let's talk about the bad things the kids may have done in a different thread, and totally ignore it here where we are discussing the things the police did in direct response to the former, even while the 2 things are inextricably connected. That makes sense.
But this morning I decided to dig a bit and see what happened there in the first place, after you made it sound like they were all peacefully holding hands and enjoying lemonade and cookies at a friendly neighbor's house and the big bad evil cops raided the place in swat gear for no good reason, and I found this:
https://madamenoire.com/539432/white-women-involved-in-mckinney-pool-fight-suspended-from-job/
And this on snopes:
https://m.snopes.com/2015/06/11/aftermath-mckinney-texas-pool/
And then there was this. Apparently the kids were jumping fences to get in.
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/mckinney-texas-pool-video/
As usual there is way more to it than is initially published. And it makes a cause and effect analysis of some sort even more interesting. It really shows how something that starts out innocent enough (people inviting friends to a gated community to cool off in the pool on a hot day) can spiral out of control.
Not to pick on you, bro. This was in a gated community, on private property, at a private pool governed by HOA rules. The party was thrown. . . . advertised on social media. . . and the gates opened to all these people in violation of the HOA rules. Other neighbors were complaining and calling the cops. Every person there was in violation of the law on that private property, even the members who hosted the party.
Every person who refused to obey police orders and just leave was violating laws in regard to interfering with policemen in doing their duty. They were an ignorant bunch of kids who had no clue what the HOA rules were, except for the few who threw the party.
I looked at the girl who was set down and sat on and it seemed to be the minimal application of force necessary to control her. She was ignorant and insolent, and all she was being asked to do was leave an illegal pool party. Anybody who would just walk away, they let go. If a kid got confrontational, they would order them to sit on the grass and handcuff them so they could just keep on movin' the others out of the place.
I find it reprehensible for HH or anyone else to lend credence to the notion that these cops were "crashing" a peaceful pool party. Yes, the kids who came were expecting a peaceful pool party, and so far as I could see, none of them came with any intent to cause a problem. But the police were called, and the pool partiers were in violation of the private property restrictions, and the HOA was asking for those legal covenants to be enforced on their property.
So what else you gonna do with a big mouth girl with a flair for drama who refuses to obey simple lawful instructions from a cop? She was the one who brought the set down, sit on upon herself. Didn't any of you knowitalls notice she hit the cop many times? In a court of law, that is called assault on anyone. For reasons of public order, the law deems assault on a police officer more severely. With her big mouth running nonstop in absolute defiance of the policeman's lawful instructions?
I find it disturbing that the chief of police didn't have the guts to stand behind this officer and vindicate him.
Witty Username
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babe, you must not rent or own a condo. We live in a bubble [read: Utah] that has many 'closed' HOA communities (AKA a bunch of cash grab rental properties) that pander and sell on VRBO or Airbnb on the casual 80% of the fiscal year. If you have a debit card that will clear on the phone you can live in any of these types of residential situations for one week. I work for one of these companies and deal with pool parties on the norm, and not once have I ever seen this type of recourse from authorities towards overstepping renters. There's easy ways to do things, and then there's ways to do things that don't involve you acting like these people personally pissed on you at one point. Some cops act like the benefit of the doubt is something the courts are to decide, and not them.
I manage a condo. I hate to call the cops, but I know how much complaints there are from one rowdy renter. I'd rather call the cops than deal with it myself, principally because I'm usually not there at the time, and it's a huge inconvenience. The place I deal with has 75% senior/retired/single ladies of remarkable age and refined sensitivities. One loud party will be discussed at every HOA meeting for two years, with demands for evicting the offenders.
Sounds like I could learn a lot from you. I'd like to hear more, as in some specific instances and what was done that dealt with it effectively. I'm all ears.
The other part of my opinion here is just that I believe local cops are getting a very bad press as part of a move to nationalize "police". I like local law enforcement. I want law enforcement run by people I can talk to, in my community. I think if any person just shows respect for police, and complies with their lawful requests or instructions, those cops will quickly begin to treat you much better. I dunno, maybe I'm a good talker, but I've talked my way outta a lotta trouble by being respectful. Without exception, they've given me the benefit of the doubt.
Joe Bagadonuts
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Did you watch a completely different video than I did? I never saw this girl talk to the cops before he tried to take her down, and I never saw her assault him in any way. What I did see was a blonde cop who appeared to be handling the situation in an appropriate way and a dark haired cop who seemed to lose his mind on several occasions during the course of this incident. I am in complete disagreement with you that cops should behave in that manner.
Yeah, that's what I saw, too. Anyone who wants to say the dark haired cop was acting appropriately, why is the other cop not acting the same way? The other cop seems to think this situation is just as benign as it seems to be, kids who overstayed their welcome at a neighborhood pool.
LogGrad98
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Every account I could find says that the kids were being disrespectful and refusing to leave, but that the other cops were all handling it appropriately except for the dude who tackled the girl. He kind of spazzed out. I am not sure why the other cops didn't try to calm him down. But there were also residents who felt the cop that tackled the girl was not acting as badly as he was portrayed. It is always tough to be judge and jury from an internet video off someone's phone. Odds are pretty slim you are getting the whole story from that one shaky perspective.
You can see that two officers quickly step in when spazz pulls his gun. They put their hand on his shoulder and push him behind them as they calmly handle the aftermath of his spazz attack. They may have saved a life right there.
LogGrad98
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That's right, and was the right move from them. I only watched the video once and didn't remember that part. They probably did save a life, and not just one but his own as well. I would not want that on my conscience for the rest of my life if I went overboard at work and killed some innocent bystander or some kid or something. Good call.
Joe Bagadonuts
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With regard to the bolded statement, "So what?" The kids who behaved badly should face appropriate consequences. I believe that cops acting appropriately should have been able to accomplish that. Most of those kids would have moved on in response to a show of calm force. I have not seen or heard anything to indicate that this particular group of kids was reacting in a manner to warrant unusual force. The only real problem that I am aware of is the way the one cop in question behaved. I think that those who stand in support of the police (like myself) do their cause a major disservice by refusing to acknowledge that behavior like that of the dark haired cop cannot be tolerated.
Just because I stand in support of law enforcement does not mean that I will stand in support of every action of every law enforcement officer. To me this incident is a clear cut example of unacceptable behavior by a police officer.
LogGrad98
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Who is arguing differently?
So I put the video up on full screen, and did a study of the action. What I thought was the girl hitting the cop was where she was sitting down on the sidewalk. She did not hit the cop, but her own thigh.
The video has been edited/altered and events are out of sequence. It runs twenty minutes but it only has about three minutes of continuous action, plus disjointed or out of sequence bits that I believe were cherry-picked. The girl shows up in several different places/times. What I believe is the earliest appearance didn't show her face, just that orange top as she walked in front of the cell phone/cam. The next one in a correct time sequence shows her walking across the street as ordered with some other girls. Then there is the 3 minute solid bit where two guys who have been ordered to sit down already are walking across the street. SpazzCop runs after them and tells them to go sit on the grass. "OrangeGirl" is standing with about eight other girls on the sidewalk behind them. SpazzCop walks up to them and orders them five times to go across the street. Five of the girls do that, but some of them do come back later. Three including "OrangeGirl" walk the other way around the corner and behind some trees. For some reason, Spazz goes there and something happens. With a series of jerks/edits, Spazz and OrangeGirl come back around the corner curve and she is screaming/fighting all the way. Spazz throws her down on the sidewalk, and she screams she hit her face on the cement. She sits up and says something repetitively, thumping her thigh. SpazzCop is telling her to lie down on the grass, face down. She is jerked onto the lawn. She is shown lying on her side while SpazzCop says face down. He grabs her and turns her face down and she is doing her best to break free. He puts his knees on her back and grabs her hands and puts the cuff on her, but stays there with his knees on her. During this sequence, there are three dudes who could be plainsclothesmen or male HOA members waling around. Almost every time the girl is yanked from one place to another is right after the scene was blocked by the cool dudes. But at the time when SpazzCop is getting control of OrangeGirl there were three male partiers who looked like they were trying to distract or interfere with SpazzCop. While he is sitting with his knees on the girl's back he is yelling at bystanders, pointing this way and that, and telling everyone to get across the street.
The other officers are in all these moments, out of the picture.
So now I'm going to look at it again and try to fix up my "report" because I actually can't remember everything perfectly.
OK, so I spent a couple of hours on this, now.
At 0:00 Officer SpazzCop, the boss cop of two other officers on the scene, is running full tilt down the sidewalk after two boy running full tilt across the street. A boy is sitting on the grass by the sidewalk right in front of him, and he yells "Move!" then trips over the boy, rolls, and gets up and resumes running. He is shown running on the grass by the corner and into the road, while a second officer who was standing by the curb at 0:00 is right behind him.
At 0:13 "OrangeGirl" is running the opposite direction. The gate to the pool is around the corner facing the street, and there's a church or something across the street: large building at least. The boys ran into the park across the street and must have stopped behind the cars on the curb.
The camera guy walks around the corner, and some friends go with him towards the third cop who is just outside the gate to the pool area, where people are streaming out and across the street. He is "CoolCop" talking civil to the folks.
By the 1:00 minute mark, SpazzCop/BossCop gets in the camera again, trying to get one of the kids to just sit down. The two boys who ran at 0:00 are on the grass. SpazzCop is in full charge mode, telling some people to sit down, others to go across the street. The two runner boys are now sneaking back into the street, and SpazzCop heads them back to the grass. There are three other boys sitting down under orders, including one boy laying across the sidewalk.
Amazing. SpazzCop has got six boys sat down in one minute near the corner. "OrangeGirl" has reversed her course and come back to stand on the corner with a bunch of other girls. She then walks past the first two boys and cuts out into the street and gets at least halfway across it. BigBlondCop, the other officer helping round up the runners is also now near CoolCop. SpazzCop walks out into the street and looks around a bit, then comes back and goes towards the corner, where the two runners are sitting. He walks past them and starts telling the girls, including OrangeGirl, to just leave, now. Five times It is now 2:45 into the video. The girls leave, 5 heading across the street, and three back up the sidewalk towards where SpazzCop and BigBlondeCop were at 0:00. "OrangeGirl" turns around and shouts something, then walks a few more steps. SpazzCop heads towards her, and reaches her by the bicycle rack, She starts back towards the corner with him. Some people are in the way, you can't see what happens. They are then seen with "OrangeGirl" and SpazzCop doing some yanking/pushing. She's trying to break free of his grasp on her arm. She is spun around and goes down once on the edge of the lawn. Officer Spazz pulls her up. She is screaming something, it sounds like what she yelled before Officer Spazz went to get her. She tries to break his hold again and is spun around and goes down on her knees. She still yelling something. Her face does not hit the sidewalk. She goes on her knees and bends over, yelling something.
Two big boys come up to Officer Spazz on the near side, and make a move to break his hold on the girl. There are three grils who have come up to help her on the far side. Officer Spazz, with a struggling girl on one hand, pulls his gun and points it at the boys, who flee quickly. The other two officers come up. No officer tries to touch Officer Spazz's gun or redirect him in any way. They move towards the boys, and give chase to the fleeing kids around the corner. They come back near the six minute mark with one of the kids, handcuffed. Officer Spazz holsters his gun while the girl is still yanking on his hold. He never points it toward the girl. At that time he gets control of the struggling girl who is clearly told to lie down "face down". She does not do that, and continues to resist in every way she can. Officer Spazz pulls her onto the grass and lays her out. She twists, and goes on her side. He rolls her onto her face and puts one knee on her back. It takes him about ten seconds to handcuff her, then he holds her in place with his knee. Officer Spazz then focuses on gawkers telling them to leave.
The camera guy clearly says "He pulled his gun on her". He turns to address him and says he didn't. CameraDoofus says it again. Officer Spazz is right. He pulled the gun on the boys trying to loosen his hold on the girl, and he holstered it again immediately. He was never "out of control" with respect to his weapon. He continues to hold the girl with his knees for less than thirty seconds all told, then another officer comes and opens her handcuffs. A few seconds later she is sitting up with her hands cuffed in front of her. The boy who tried to pull OfficerSpazz away from "OrangeGirl" is the only person who was arrested. The charge will be interfering with an officer.
What I thought was a confusing and maybe edited was not the 7 minute original, but an expanded rehash with less than two minutes additional video chronologically after the first, with "reruns' of some particular parts of the original, stretching it out to twenty minutes.
When "OrangeGirl" was angrily thumping her thigh, she was extremely angry, so much so she couldn't speak without stuttering. She said "I wa moan. . . I wa maown. . . I want my own gun." OfficerSpazz had not pulled his gun on her, and he did not. She was threatening the officer. It was what she was shouting when OfficerSpazz decided he needed to go get her and put her in the lineup with the running boys.
Anybody who has any sympathy for her is expecting cops to ignore criminal threats against law enforcement officers. Yah, she's a kid, and she was not arrested after all that. She was released to her parents, and not even charged.
I still say this particular police officer, acted efficiently and effectively, and used only reasonable and prudent force, and did the right thing.
I still say it's a shame on the police chief not to stand up for him. I wouldn't use some of his language, you most of you would, and do so all the time. We should expect law enforcement professionals to maintain their civil tongues and not use the words "***" in giving directions. Inside of eight minutes he got a crowd to move across the street, and nine people under control who had run from the cops or confronted the cops.
I don't think any of you could have done as much, as reasonably, or efficiently.
Joe Bagadonuts
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Lol. Have you read the thread?
Joe Bagadonuts
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Condoning and even lauding the actions of a person who you refer to as SpazzCop boggles the mind.