Dumb pig cops getting smarter?

[babe]

Condoning and even lauding the actions of a person who you refer to as SpazzCop boggles the mind.

That term seems to be what a lot of folks think fits.

So I think a better name would be something respectful, but I realize I'm trying to reach out to morons who condone and laud a lot of stuff I think is abhorrent. Like falsely accusing a police officer of things he didn't do, or condoning someone threatening to shoot cops.

If you can't laugh at serious stuff you're not qualified to discuss it. A sense of humor is essential to sanity.

So here's a black dude who sorta says essentially the same thing I said. I'm not sure he's serious, or just trying to stimulate creative thinking. . . . not sure he's even serious. But I've found that the more intelligent folks in any department are the ones who have to confront stultifying ignorance with little hope of educating the unwilling, and finally choose to just resort to humor. I'll try that myself sometime.

TJ Sotomayor. . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qxVr4O68ofk

 

[Stoked]

Personally I can understand why he pulled his gun in the moment he did. He had several people surround him while he was detainign the teen girl. One or two boys even charge him and one clearly goes into a fighting stance with fists raised and reaches for his waist. We can clearly see he is only pulling up his pants but he has already presented himself as a threat to the officer and the officer cannot see he is only pulling up his pants. I would have pulled my weapon in that moment as well. Thank God he didn't have to shoot.

The problem I have is his actions that led to that moment. His actions directly lead to that moment. His is vulgar, aggressive and used uneccesary force on the teen girl imo. Police officer or not when you treat people like that they are much, much less likely to cooperate and be civil in return. The police chief should not have thrown him under the bus until an investigation was done. That was extremely unproffesional and as another officer I would not

Problems:

I cannot see in any video I have seen what lead to his "barrell roll"

We do not know what the teen girls said to officers or they to her

What where the officers told prior to arriving at the scene? I have heard tresspassing,a ssault, vandalism and drugs. Some where not true but what where the officers arriving expecting to find?

 

[LogGrad98]

My thoughts about the police chief were that maybe the guy had a history of sorts. Might be why he threw him under the bus so fast, other than covering their *** to avoid a riot like has happened in other places where police video gets out there.

 

[LogGrad98]

Lol. Have you read the thread?

Lol you replied directly to me, so I was under the impression you were referring to my post. Can't read your mind, only your posts.

 

[LogGrad98]

Condoning and even lauding the actions of a person who you refer to as SpazzCop boggles the mind.

Lol did you even read babe's post?

 

[LogGrad98]

I thought babe's transcript of the video was very well done and well thought out. I went back and watched it again and he is dead on right. You can always argue the judgement call about the officer doing what he did reasonably or not, and you can always argue that he shouldn't have had to do any of that in the first place, but all in all very good post.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Lol you replied directly to me, so I was under the impression you were referring to my post. Can't read your mind, only your posts.

My bad. I started by referring to something you said but then added something that did not relate to your post.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Lol did you even read babe's post?

Every word. Did you? If this is not condoning and lauding what is it?

Inside of eight minutes he got a crowd to move across the street, and nine people under control who had run from the cops or confronted the cops.

I don't think any of you could have done as much, as reasonably, or efficiently.

Think of the worldwide uproar he also managed to create in those eight minutes. Yeah, this guy should get a medal for efficiency.

 

[babe]

Every word. Did you? If this is not condoning and lauding what is it?

Think of the worldwide uproar he also managed to create in those eight minutes. Yeah, this guy should get a medal for efficiency.

My effort to get a fair grasp of the event and the video is not perfect yet. The first time I watched it I thought the girl hit the cop several times, but I was wrong. You can get a hundred witnesses of the same incident and a hundred different eyewitness reports, life is just that pliable in the human eye. If I went over the video again with an intention to look at each video frame and resolve specific issues into facts, I still have just one view from one vantage point. I am sure I would refine my take on what happened exactly some more.

Your use of the terms "lauding" and "condoning" is your take on my writing. We are all going to interpret things our own way. My actual feeling about it is not "lauding" or "condoning" but trying to be as positive as possible with a police officer doing a difficult job I couldn't do.

My demeanor is pretty much the opposite of that policeman. If I was the chief with a couple of helpers coming into that scene, I would have let the runners run and not chased them. I would have looked for the women who were fighting at the gate and talked to folks about what happened, like OfficerCool was doing. As I understand it, I was not called to round up boys dealing drugs, or anyone armed, just two ladies who had pulled on one another's hair for about thirty seconds. I would have understood that aside from talking to people in case some civil assault charge was being made, my job was to disperse the party peacefully.

I would have to give your view and that of Game for example serious credibility, and yet I recognize people with take-charge mentality are more effective than me because I can hardly get any respect sometimes just being the nice guy cop. I don't want to so handicap our police that they can not actually take charge of a situation like this.

I think a deliberate bias in our media towards escalating racial tensions and creating a worldwide uproar is a huge part of our general problem. We need more professional reporting with less rhetorical enhancement.

 

[LogGrad98]

So in your expert opinion what would efficient crowd control from a cop look like?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So in your expert opinion what would efficient crowd control from a cop look like?

I'm not sure who you are asking but in my non-expert opinion I would say it should look very much like the job the blonde cop was doing and it shouldn't look anything like the job that the dark haired cop was doing. His frantic, manic approach created far more problems than it solved.

One of the most important tools a police officer has is his perceived authority. If he behaves like a lunatic that authority goes out the window. As a result I am not even slightly surprised that the kids reacted to his methods in the way that they did. In fact, I would have been far more surprised if they had treated him with the sort of respect they were showing to the blonde cop.

 

[♪alt13]

Not to pick on you, bro. This was in a gated community, on private property, at a private pool governed by HOA rules. The party was thrown. . . . advertised on social media. . . and the gates opened to all these people in violation of the HOA rules. Other neighbors were complaining and calling the cops. Every person there was in violation of the law on that private property, even the members who hosted the party.

Every person who refused to obey police orders and just leave was violating laws in regard to interfering with policemen in doing their duty. They were an ignorant bunch of kids who had no clue what the HOA rules were, except for the few who threw the party.

I looked at the girl who was set down and sat on and it seemed to be the minimal application of force necessary to control her. She was ignorant and insolent, and all she was being asked to do was leave an illegal pool party. Anybody who would just walk away, they let go. If a kid got confrontational, they would order them to sit on the grass and handcuff them so they could just keep on movin' the others out of the place.

I find it reprehensible for HH or anyone else to lend credence to the notion that these cops were "crashing" a peaceful pool party. Yes, the kids who came were expecting a peaceful pool party, and so far as I could see, none of them came with any intent to cause a problem. But the police were called, and the pool partiers were in violation of the private property restrictions, and the HOA was asking for those legal covenants to be enforced on their property.

So what else you gonna do with a big mouth girl with a flair for drama who refuses to obey simple lawful instructions from a cop? She was the one who brought the set down, sit on upon herself. Didn't any of you knowitalls notice she hit the cop many times? In a court of law, that is called assault on anyone. For reasons of public order, the law deems assault on a police officer more severely. With her big mouth running nonstop in absolute defiance of the policeman's lawful instructions?

I find it disturbing that the chief of police didn't have the guts to stand behind this officer and vindicate him.

Bundy Ranch?

Oh wait that was white men with guns that were refusing to leave when told to by law enforcement.

Totally different

Carry on

 

[babe]

Bundy Ranch?

Oh wait that was white men with guns that were refusing to leave when told to by law enforcement.

Totally different

Carry on

The Bundy Ranch episode was a planned move by the BLM, and was being executed by agency armed personnel. If it had been a sheriff with an eviction order given by a real judge, I'd have thought it was a different situation. I think it was intended by the BLM to be a "shot across the cactus" to intimidate and make an example of Bundy. To compare these cops at the HOA, being first responders to a public disturbance, with a planned government military-style assault on existing citizen's peaceable rights, seems a bit off the mark to me.

In this country, we now have agencies like the BLM claiming legislative powers in rule-and policy-making decisions, stipulating daily fines that amount to summary expropriation of property belonging to citizens, who have their own independent police, and judges who will "try" the case. Bundy's case has been in civil courts but has not run the full line of appeals. I think grazing rights in the old west should have been considered a property right that required compensation for the government to transfer the property to others. That would have made those old range wars go away pretty quick. Grazers and farmers fighting over fencing land being claimed under a federal Homestead law is just stupid. The government needs to respect the people in the first place, and if they want settlers to go in and want to make the land available, they need to pay a just compensation for the loss of grazing by those who were there already doing that. Same thing with slavery. Instead of a federal government and President extinguishing a property claim, it would have been better for those who didn't believe in slavery to buy the slaves and set them free. But then, if we had done the right thing to begin with, we would have recognized human rights for all humans in the first place, and we would have done better at having a government that belonged to the people and not to some wealthy subset of the people.

A rancher could spend everything he has, and go bankrupt, defending an established grazing right in this country today. We need to make our government respect people. We also need people who are not willing to destroy our peace in riot and mob behavior. +

Your question would be better addressed by pulling up the example of Gandhi and his methods for standing up for human rights.

People like yourself who want to make the case that whites don't have the same problem with authority that blacks have are making one fundamental mistake in reasoning. People should have the same rights, and the argument should be made that way. Law should be enforced in equal measures as well so far as we know how to do that. But human beings all have their issues and problems. If you want more support for people's rights, make it an argument for everyone's human rights.

 

[babe]

So in your expert opinion what would efficient crowd control from a cop look like?

I take this one.

The CoolCop at the gate was doing a good job, and when the kids were asking why the SpazzCop was chasing the boys across the street, he just said that when the police come, don't just run off. He was right. It's natural to want to know why they were running away, and the police needed the involved people to be available for any questions about what happened. As soon as it appeared they were not part of altercation, the police directed them to leave the scene.

When you first saw SpazzCop shouting at the kids while sitting them down, he had already run over a hundred yards in the heat, and marched the runaways back to the scene, in less than a minute. We don't see what happened before the boys started running. SpazzCop was understandably stressed with the kids who just wouldn't do what they were asked, and his whole point was to directly communicate that they needed to do that. I couldn't have run that race. I realize we need cops who can, sometimes.

We pay cops pretty low wages, and we need cops pretty bad. TJ Sotomayor had a good point. If you think we have bad cops, do your public duty and join the force. Make a difference. My bet is that even the best "liberals" would sometimes get out of sorts and lose the right demeanor. But I believe the best solution is good public/police relations. We need people who will try to show respect even to some of the marginal cops, as we show respect for the worst judges and politicians. It's the principle of public order and necessary to public peace. If the cop is wrong, does wrong, we need that to be addressed by civil authority generally. Maybe we need a few Gandhi types too, but that's asking for a lot from human beings.

 

[LogGrad98]

My effort to get a fair grasp of the event and the video is not perfect yet. The first time I watched it I thought the girl hit the cop several times, but I was wrong. You can get a hundred witnesses of the same incident and a hundred different eyewitness reports, life is just that pliable in the human eye. If I went over the video again with an intention to look at each video frame and resolve specific issues into facts, I still have just one view from one vantage point. I am sure I would refine my take on what happened exactly some more.

Your use of the terms "lauding" and "condoning" is your take on my writing. We are all going to interpret things our own way. My actual feeling about it is not "lauding" or "condoning" but trying to be as positive as possible with a police officer doing a difficult job I couldn't do.

My demeanor is pretty much the opposite of that policeman. If I was the chief with a couple of helpers coming into that scene, I would have let the runners run and not chased them. I would have looked for the women who were fighting at the gate and talked to folks about what happened, like OfficerCool was doing. As I understand it, I was not called to round up boys dealing drugs, or anyone armed, just two ladies who had pulled on one another's hair for about thirty seconds. I would have understood that aside from talking to people in case some civil assault charge was being made, my job was to disperse the party peacefully.

I would have to give your view and that of Game for example serious credibility, and yet I recognize people with take-charge mentality are more effective than me because I can hardly get any respect sometimes just being the nice guy cop. I don't want to so handicap our police that they can not actually take charge of a situation like this.

I think a deliberate bias in our media towards escalating racial tensions and creating a worldwide uproar is a huge part of our general problem. We need more professional reporting with less rhetorical enhancement.

I'd rather let a thousand guilty men go free than chase after them. -Chief Wiggum

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

I'm not sure who you are asking but in my non-expert opinion I would say it should look very much like the job the blonde cop was doing and it shouldn't look anything like the job that the dark haired cop was doing. His frantic, manic approach created far more problems than it solved.

One of the most important tools a police officer has is his perceived authority. If he behaves like a lunatic that authority goes out the window. As a result I am not even slightly surprised that the kids reacted to his methods in the way that they did. In fact, I would have been far more surprised if they had treated him with the sort of respect they were showing to the blonde cop.

Police tryes to disburse black mob. Girl ignores police commands like 7 times i think? Police arrests for proper charges. Police gets fired for following procedure and upholding civility.

It is absurd to come in defense of mouthy black girl failing police orders and resisting the arrest. You gun totin Americans are out of your ****ing minds. USA is done. This is proof.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

It is so easy for one police to chase down ten fleeing felons. I dont see why he didnt pull out lawn chair and marguritas to politely ask felons to return back to him. This is so easy to control black mobs of crime. Cops should never give chase.

Foolish society. This attitude is reason for St. Louis how it is today.

 

[babe]

Police tryes to disburse black mob. Girl ignores police commands like 7 times i think? Police arrests for proper charges. Police gets fired for following procedure and upholding civility.

It is absurd to come in defense of mouthy black girl failing police orders and resisting the arrest. You gun totin Americans are out of your ****ing minds. USA is done. This is proof.

OK. Now this. Factually speaking, there were a lot of whites at the party, and it was not a mob. 80% left peaceably, and went to their cars. Some stood around across the street near their cars. I think the total exactly was eight detained, some needing to be brought back after floating away a bit. There were three girl friends, and two boys who came around the "OrangeGirl" when she was on the grass.

Of perhaps 70 persons I could see in the video, about 20 were white, not counting the police or security men, and there appeared to be no "racial" tension among them. There were 8 males detained, and one female. Only one will face any charges for the simple reason that there was nothing serious to charge them with. One boy did try to reach in somehow and interfere with Officer Casebolt, and he was arrested for that.

I don't know anything about the "OrangeGirl" really. She was an invited guest at the party and I think lived in that community. She drew attention to herself by standing around close to other detainees after being told to leave, clearly. She left the area twice, and came right back, and she was shouting something at the cop when he went to bring her to the place he was gathering the detainees. She fought and twisted to get away, and angrily shouted that she wanted her own gun, seeming to indicate she would use it. I've wondered if she was "high" on meth, or what.

Where you might have a point is in our media and public discussions that we are willing to make this such an issue.

This was no Cherokee "Trail of Tears", folks.

 

[TroutBum]

Can we please get back to the real point of this thread:

LOL, NAOS is a massive tool.












p.s. The old fool is correct on this one. babe for Congress!

 

[Gameface]

Serious question.

What police orders am I required to follow by law and what ones am I not required to follow. I am not completely sure on this.

This is one reason why I always advocate for protocols that are taught in school that spell out exactly what the cops will do in a given situation and what I am required to do when that happens. Then for the police to be very clear about what is an order they have the legal right to make, what is a request, and what is an emergency command that needs to be followed immediately or could result in the use of physical force against me.

I do know that it is not at all uncommon for the police to issue "orders" that we citizens are not obligated to follow, that they have no legal authority to make or enforce. It really clouds things in situations like this.

Then you've got people saying she didn't follow the police officers orders. So? Was she required to? The police are not our parents. They are not our commanding officers. It really needs to be made clear what is a legal order and what is a cop bossing people around because he likes bossing people around and being a bully.