Dunn deal is done

[Tremendous Upside]

Dunn is the worst kind of fake defender. He looks like a genius when his ball hawking works 1 time out of 10 and he picks someone's pocket in the backcourt, getting a dunk. But 9 times out of 10 he takes himself out of position with his reaching and then it's up to his teammates to rotate like crazy to cover for him. Dude's always been like this.

In that way he's very similar to Vando and Sexton. He looks like he's working super hard on D, but he's doing the wrong things and wasting energy. None of these guys have any idea how to play team defense, and team defense is where it's at these days in the NBA.

On the other side of the ball he's Clarkson without the jump shot. Not sure we want to give a guy like that a long term deal that would take him into the wrong side of 30.

Dunn is a ballhog who needs four shooters spread out around him so he has space for his dribbling adventures into the middle. The problems with that:

1) We don't have those shooters
2) We have a traditional C who lives in the paint
3) If there's one guy who we need to work in a spaced out interior, it's Lauri, not Dunn.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Don’t need him long-term, but I think he’s already proven himself for the rest of this season and maybe the next. He should be brought back. Anything beyond that, depends on how much he costs.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Don’t need him long-term, but I think he’s already proven himself for the rest of this season and maybe the next. He should be brought back. Anything beyond that, depends on how much he costs.

He won't be expensive - as far as money goes. But it should be clear to anyone with a pair of eyes that Dunn is not the kind of guy who views himself as a role player. As long as he's out there and has the ball, it's always his show.

Hell, he's even doing it on a 10 day deal, so you can probably guess what he'd look like if we gave him two years.

We don't need a 30 year old non-shooter with multiple knee and shoulder surgeries behind him in a ball-handling role. It was nice of the Jazz to give him a look, but let's just say thanks but no thanks. We already have a much younger, much better version of him in Sexton.

 

[HermanG]

He won't be expensive - as far as money goes. But it should be clear to anyone with a pair of eyes that Dunn is not the kind of guy who views himself as a role player. As long as he's out there and has the ball, it's always his show.

Hell, he's even doing it on a 10 day deal, so you can probably guess what he'd look like if we gave him two years.

We don't need a 30 year old non-shooter with multiple knee and shoulder surgeries behind him in a ball-handling role. It was nice of the Jazz to give him a look, but let's just say thanks but no thanks. We already have a much younger, much better version of him in Sexton.

I see your point but to be fair to the man we dont know what Hardy has asked him to do. At least I dont.

Compared to JC his shot looks worse but his shot selection seems better, his defense is better as well as him keeping his head up and making good passes out there.

13 shots (maybe 8 self-created?), 8 assists and 0 turnovers is also a pretty impressive combo.

I wanna see him against a solid team before making a call though.

 

[Swuul]

We don't need a 30 year old non-shooter with multiple knee and shoulder surgeries behind him in a ball-handling role. It was nice of the Jazz to give him a look, but let's just say thanks but no thanks. We already have a much younger, much better version of him in Sexton.

First of all, Kris Dunn is 27, not 30. He has had *one* shoulder surgery in 2013, he has *never* had any surgeries on his knees.

Secondly, Dunn is not a starting quality PG. But for the Jazz second unit he is and dare I say would be quite good. How many times has this season some neverheard guard on the opposing team gone ******* vs Jazz 2nd unit? Dunn is excellent at neutralising such lesser skilled gung-ho guards. Also, in the 2nd unit I'd much rather prefer Dunn to hold the ball rather than one of the turnovermachines Jazz has on the bench.

Dunn has his limits, but if used correctly he might be exactly what Jazz is looking for. With the Bulls he began to decline when Jimmy the Clown took over, as he was told not to bring up the ball or shoot the ball (Jimmy Boylen insisted those tasks had to be undertaken by Zach LaVine) but instead focus on defense. With the Jazz trainers he might very well still develope to a good back-up PG who can lock down opposing team 2nd unit scorers.

 

[Mr. T]

I see the Bulls era of Dunn shining through in @Tremendous Upside 's post. Obviously, he is the same guy but with the Bulls Hoiberg gave Dunn keys to the team without proper development and then Boylen happened. As @HermanG said, lets wait and see what Hardy and the Jazz training staff can do with Dunn. IMO Dunn suffered from the exact same environmental issues as Lauri and extremely bad luck with injuries. I would definitely sign him up for a second 10-day deal and likely the rest of the season and see what he can do.

Tbh there were plenty of servicable players with Bulls. RoLo still is a fine backup C. My likely most unpopular opinion is that Ryan Arcidiacono would be a great backup PG for Jazz also as he is good at distrubuting the ball with good awareness.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

First of all, Kris Dunn is 27, not 30.

Kris Dunn will literally be 29 years old next month. What are you smoking?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Compared to JC his shot looks worse but his shot selection seems better, his defense is better as well as him keeping his head up and making good passes out there.

He's another guy who's absolutely useless off the ball. We have too many of them already.

Our spacing is one of the worst in the league as it is. Hoarding these dribble-happy, non-shooting guards and wings doesn't make any sense. It just leads to Lauri floating to the weak side perimeter by necessity since he's pretty much the only one with any gravity there.

I know Hardy & co are probably throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks, but creating another minutes crunch in the backcourt and choosing players who need the ball is a weird way to go about it. IMO the idea should be to surround Lauri & Kessler with shooters, so they can rule the interior. That's the future, not dudes like Dunn using 80% of the shot clock doing hesitation dribbles inside the arc, while Markkanen spaces the floor for them.

 

[HermanG]

He's another guy who's absolutely useless off the ball. We have too many of them already.

Our spacing is one of the worst in the league as it is. Hoarding these dribble-happy, non-shooting guards and wings doesn't make any sense. It just leads to Lauri floating to the weak side perimeter by necessity since he's pretty much the only one with any gravity there.

I know Hardy & co are probably throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks, but creating another minutes crunch in the backcourt and choosing players who need the ball is a weird way to go about it. IMO the idea should be to surround Lauri & Kessler with shooters, so they can rule the interior. That's the future, not dudes like Dunn using 80% of the shot clock doing hesitation dribbles inside the arc, while Markkanen spaces the floor for them.

My point was more about Dunn being potentially better for a bench commander role than JC... but I agree the trio of Sexton/JC/Dunn definitely doesnt fit to the same roster long term.

However I'm still not 100% sure we got a starting guard on the roster tbh.. so its good to throw that **** in case something actually sticks and clicks.

Only guys I'm sure about as starters are Lauri and Walker.

 

[whatthe]

I am ok with the point guard being an average shooter, if the point guard can drive and make smart passes to his teammates. That point guard can still create spacing and gravity and I think Kris Dunn can do that. I am also am ok with an average shooting center on the same team as long as he is good in the pick and roll or is good lob threat. I think Kessler fits that role.

Where I think shooting is absolutely critical is with the 2, 3, and 4 spots. The more elite you are there the better the offense becomes. I think Lauri can fill that role for either the 3 or 4 spot on this team. Abaji can fill that role at the 2 or 3 spot. Clarkson brings a lot to the table but he is free agent.

Anyway, in this draft I would look for the best scorer/shooter 2, 3, or 4 and let the team adjust around that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Can we sign him for like 3 years with a team option on the last year for a really really cheap deal?

Yes… by using MLE… not sure if it would prorate his minimum this year though. I think it’s optional but I know in other instance teams can use MLE to give a minimum deal but they actually pay the full 1.7M instead of prorated minimum.

This is one of my pet peeves with the last administration when you sign these deals (like Danuel House) then get the option year to give you upside.

I think Dunn has a little bit of a rhythm with Lauri. Might be worth a minimum right there… and I know it’s a touchy-feely type thing… but I love having guys that were out of the league at one time to be around the young guys. Even if it was mostly injury related.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Dunn is the worst kind of fake defender. He looks like a genius when his ball hawking works 1 time out of 10 and he picks someone's pocket in the backcourt, getting a dunk. But 9 times out of 10 he takes himself out of position with his reaching and then it's up to his teammates to rotate like crazy to cover for him. Dude's always been like this.

In that way he's very similar to Vando and Sexton. He looks like he's working super hard on D, but he's doing the wrong things and wasting energy. None of these guys have any idea how to play team defense, and team defense is where it's at these days in the NBA.

On the other side of the ball he's Clarkson without the jump shot. Not sure we want to give a guy like that a long term deal that would take him into the wrong side of 30.

Dunn is a ballhog who needs four shooters spread out around him so he has space for his dribbling adventures into the middle. The problems with that:

1) We don't have those shooters
2) We have a traditional C who lives in the paint
3) If there's one guy who we need to work in a spaced out interior, it's Lauri, not Dunn.

Prime Dunn was a menace… might ball hawk a bit but he also got into dudes and was as close to a lock down guy as there is nowadays. Not sure that level is still there but with how great the shot making is in the league… go ahead and take some risks… the bend but don’t break defense is a little overrated.