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So I’m just curious @silesian, what would “innovation” look like at a typical public school? You seem to be arguing that schools are archaic yet I haven’t seen you describe what you actually dislike and what “innovation” would actually mean.

He linked to an article that described a revolution by using computers to assist in education, personalizing education, as if that were a new or revolutionary thought.

https://www.christenseninstitute.org/blog/why-disruptive-innovation-matters-to-education/
 
I think I recall reading something about that -- it's about an hour or less, right, the ability to maintain focus, or is it even less?
What I've read is that the average adult can give their full focused attention to any given task for between 15 minutes and a half hour, maybe 45 minutes. Go much beyond that and attention begins to wane. Most adults lose most of their focus within an hour to 90 minutes. You can generally push yourself beyond that, with diminished capacity. It benefits people greatly to do 2 things. 1) take frequent micro-breaks. Even as short as 1-2 minutes is enough to re-engage the brain. This means disconnect from the current task, don't just switch to another task. Get up, walk around, get a drink, look outside, or even maybe post something on JF. And 2) focus on one task at a time. It's been shown repeatedly that people who claim to "multitask" get significantly less done, with consistently lower quality, than those who focus on one task at a time. Multitasking is just switching between tasks, since your brain really can't engage any more than one task at a time, and without at least a few minutes to really engage you never give either task truly your full attention, so both (or multiple as the case may be) tasks suffer.
 
I think I recall reading something about that -- it's about an hour or less, right, the ability to maintain focus, or is it even less?

For lectures, 20 minutes is long for the class overall (there will always be some students who do better). Part of that is the passiveness of taking notes during a lecture.
 
Out of curiosity, what is the average expenditure on marketing for a typical pharmaceutical company?

i'm in class and too lazy to search up the stats, but every single report I've ever seen shows that it is *always* more than R&D.
 
He linked to an article that described a revolution by using computers to assist in education, personalizing education, as if that were a new or revolutionary thought.

https://www.christenseninstitute.org/blog/why-disruptive-innovation-matters-to-education/


You expressed your opinion that disruptive innovation did not apply at all to education. I sent you a link that expressed the opinion of the Christensen Institute, the primary thought leaders for disruptive education/

I neither stated nor implied that the article was new or revolutionary, you made that part up.

So enjoy that imaginary argument against positions that I have not taken and things I have not said. If you would kindly stop pretending that your argument is with me, that would be great. The Christenson Institute has an email address, I'm sure they would be interested to hear your arguments about their dumb takes on innovation. They are pretty smart dudes, so good luck.

And have a nice day!

:)
 
I neither stated nor implied that the article was new or revolutionary, you made that part up.

If it's not new nor revolutionary, how is it innovative?

The Christenson Institute has an email address, I'm sure they would be interested to hear your arguments about their dumb takes on innovation. They are pretty smart dudes, so good luck.

I find that smart dudes, talking outside their area of expertise, are wrong about as often as dumb dudes. I have nothing to tell them about how innovation works for the consumer marketplace; I'm sure they understand that better than I. I doubt they would listen to any comments I made on their takes on innovation, Dunning-Kruger is a greater force for smart people like those at the Christenson Institute.
 
So I’m just curious @silesian, what would “innovation” look like at a typical public school? You seem to be arguing that schools are archaic yet I haven’t seen you describe what you actually dislike and what “innovation” would actually mean.

Thanks, you are correct, I have not described what I dislike nor have I shared my opinions on improvements. I threw out the idea that innovation might come from those who are not entrenched in education and have been discussing this opinion.

As I can think of no twitter-sized response to squeeze into my lunch hour, I'm going to have to defer my response until I have some available time. :)
 
I find that smart dudes, talking outside their area of expertise, are wrong about as often as dumb dudes. I have nothing to tell them about how innovation works for the consumer marketplace; I'm sure they understand that better than I. I doubt they would listen to any comments I made on their takes on innovation, Dunning-Kruger is a greater force for smart people like those at the Christenson Institute.

Do you find it at all ironic that you dismiss anyone outside education because they lack institutional knowledge. Yet here you are, with no expertise in innovation, debating innovation. Pretty close to text book irony.

The thing about Dunning Kruger is that the people who demonstrate the effect are by definition unaware of their own ignorance.

So I would think that a discussion between innovation experts (who don't understand education) and educational experts (who don't understand innovation) might actually be very productive.

Go for it -- what do you have to lose?
 
You must have missed this question: If computer assisted learning is not new nor revolutionary, how is it innovative?

Do you find it at all ironic that you dismiss anyone outside education because they lack institutional knowledge. Yet here you are, with no expertise in innovation, debating innovation. Pretty close to text book irony.

I'm discussing innovation in the education field, and in particular, why disruptive innovation is the wrong paradigm for such innovation. I just stated that I had nothing to say about innovation in the consumer marketplace. I've seen innovation attempted in the education field many times.

The thing about Dunning Kruger is that the people who demonstrate the effect are by definition unaware of their own ignorance.

I agree.

So I would think that a discussion between innovation experts (who don't understand education) and educational experts (who don't understand innovation) might actually be very productive.

Go for it -- what do you have to lose?

Not a thing. As I pointed out before, I innovate myself in the classroom.
 
You must have missed this question: If computer assisted learning is not new nor revolutionary, how is it innovative?

You must have missed the answer: I suggested that you discuss this with the author.
 
Not a thing. As I pointed out before, I innovate myself in the classroom.

Awesome, you have a passion for education and I bet you are a good teacher. I'm curious, what are your "top 3" innovations you recently brought to your classes? What subject do you teach?

Cheers.
 
Awesome, you have a passion for education and I bet you are a good teacher. I'm curious, what are your "top 3" innovations you recently brought to your classes? What subject do you teach?

You know, 96% of teachers rate themselves as average or better? I have no idea how good I am, but since I only teach math part-time, I would have trouble putting myself as even average.

Top 3: the homework lottery, putting Mathematica into the Business Calculus course, allowing students to individually choose their own topic for part of the Liberal Arts class. Of course, these are not revolutionary, and innovative only in the sense that others aren't trying it; the concepts are my spin on successful techniques I have read about.
 
You know, 96% of teachers rate themselves as average or better? I have no idea how good I am, but since I only teach math part-time, I would have trouble putting myself as even average.

Top 3: the homework lottery, putting Mathematica into the Business Calculus course, allowing students to individually choose their own topic for part of the Liberal Arts class. Of course, these are not revolutionary, and innovative only in the sense that others aren't trying it; the concepts are my spin on successful techniques I have read about.

Cool, thanks for sharing.
 
You know, 96% of teachers rate themselves as average or better?
That is why standardized testing is so important. I understand the "teaching to the test" argument against it but we really need a way to judge the effectiveness of different methods and educators in a system of such importance.

Test all the kids when they start the school year. Test all the kids again at the conclusion of the school year and note the delta. Maybe little Timmy is a dumdum who only advances 5% per school year when the state average is 17% per year. Sure that will drag a teacher's aggregate down but you can see a teacher's worth when you see little Timmy advance 3% in 2nd grade, 2% in 3rd grade, 3% in 4th grade, 10% in 5th grade, and 3% in 6th grade. Whoever that 5th grade teacher was did something special. In the same way, you should be able to easily see which schools over or under perform and allow movement.

It is the same idea I was expressing with Corner Canyon and their football program. A school's historical record in math should be as easy to see as their historical record in football scores. Computer Science achievement should be as easy to research as basketball achievement. Subsequent college acceptance, college graduation, and average salary of past students when they reach 24 years old should all be easy to see for parents when they want to decide which school to entrust with their kids.
 
So I’m just curious @silesian, what would “innovation” look like at a typical public school? You seem to be arguing that schools are archaic yet I haven’t seen you describe what you actually dislike and what “innovation” would actually mean.
See my above answer to One Brow. The innovation would be making pertinent information easily publicly available. I have a hard time believing schools don't already have data on poor performing educators and poor performing schools but guard it as much as the law allows.

For students who attended Brighton High School, how many graduated college and what do they earn when they are 24-years old? How does that graduation rate and earnings history contrast to those who went to Hillcrest High School? How have those rates from those two schools changed over the past two decades? If you've got a kid who can see one school from his window but is technically in the boundaries of a different school, I think the parents should have access to that information and easily be able to choice-in to the better school for their kid.
 
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