I might not understand those assertions as well as I should. I know there are some non-citizens in here, and some people who want easier management or convenience for their ideas of development. Very few ordinary people with simple wishes to just babble at one another.....
Election Fraud
- Thread starter babe
- Start date
I might not understand those assertions as well as I should. I know there are some non-citizens in here, and some people who want easier management or convenience for their ideas of development. Very few ordinary people with simple wishes to just babble at one another.....
One Brow
Well-Known Member
Just the opposite for me.
Frankly unless I'm walking through the more unsavory parts of big cities like LA I rarely if ever have any concern of being shot. I'm fact I can't really remember the last time I thought "oh ****, this is dicey". I worry a lot more about being killed by some ****ing moron on the freeway than I ever do about guns. Like, orders of magnitude more.
That is, when I worry about being killed. I'm something of a nihilist.
I don't think OB needs to worry in Utah. Well, except for driving, when I fear he'll run into one of the ubiquitous "Mormon Roadblocks", ya know. Where everyone in sight is trying to drive the exact same speed, ahead and behind you, and you are trapped in the flock. OB might lose patience and do something irrational, like drive 90 in the median.
Damnedest thing about Mormons. Worse than anyone about being compliant.
Looks like Haxors was a returnee, maybe running two accounts or something. Mad, too.
The thing is, Jason tries to be nice. But fundamentally, there are some issues with some JFC folks who ought to just clearly state their affiliations and purposes in a supposed fan site. Might be giving the real Jazz a bad name.
At least be nice, and don't pile on any noncomplying babbler. No political issue is going to be decided on a sports fan site. Live and let live.
Also not a place to pick a fight for any cause.
Hax0rs
Banned
What?
@One Brow then likes this post by @LogGrad98 which is exactly what I said, and you responded with the above quote.....With which I reply, wHaT?
Hax0rs
Banned
Na, I was a member of the old site, until I realized Jason or one of the Site Admin had my IP. In fact, I used to post quite a bit on the old site.
You cant trust anybody these days. This site has become a microcosm of society at large. People voting in polls based on other members political affiliation, or has someone slighted me in the past. It's honestly why I dont post in the main forum, just browse.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
It is election fraud. Unless you have lived in an area where ballot harvesting is legal, and this is why ballot harvesting is illegal almost everywhere on Earth, it is hard to believe. It is totally against the law to pay someone to harvest ballots but the practice is super common. It is piece work. That felon could get paid per vote he turned in, and the security that is supposed to protect the system from fraudulent votes doesn't work well. What you end up with are stories like this one:
San Fernando Valley residents cast provisional ballots due to equipment issue
Some San Fernando Valley voters think they are being wrongly prevented from casting a ballot in the upcoming gubernatorial recall election, but the county elections office said it was an equipment …
ktla.com
One Brow
Well-Known Member
Did you even listen to the story in the post you quoted?
These ballots were not harvested, because the voters in question never received them.
How would a putative ballot harvester have gotten her ballot?What you end up with are stories like this one:
San Fernando Valley residents cast provisional ballots due to equipment issue
Some San Fernando Valley voters think they are being wrongly prevented from casting a ballot in the upcoming gubernatorial recall election, but the county elections office said it was an equipment …
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Stolen it from her mailbox, filled it out, got paid for it, and then the bundler who paid for the ballot turned them in.
One Brow
Well-Known Member
Is this supposed ballot thief (not harvester) checking all these mailboxes every day to see if ballots have arrived? It would be difficult to do better than minimum wage from such a scheme.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
You just wait for it to be delivered to you and then grab them out of all the unlocked mailboxes in your area. They all go out at the same time and would all be delivered to the same neighborhood the same day. If the harvester is lucky he can get multiple ballots in a single mailbox.
Red
Well-Known Member
I have not seen an update. I have contacts in the U.S Postal Inspection Service, and experience, both with the Postal Service itself, and, in particular, exactly what I spoke of in that comment at the time. That specific type of crime, of which there is an uptick in recent years. Across the nation. I have a great deal experience in the subject, but I’m not going to get into my old sources or my earlier life. If I hear of an update, last I hear the Inspection Service was still investigating, I’ll update this. Or if someone else knows, by all means post it. I had actually forgotten about this thread, but not the crime. I was talking about the subject in general with a friend today. What I said at the time made the most sense to me, for the reasons I speculated on at that time. Thanks for reminding me of this thread…..It is election fraud. Unless you have lived in an area where ballot harvesting is legal, and this is why ballot harvesting is illegal almost everywhere on Earth, it is hard to believe. It is totally against the law to pay someone to harvest ballots but the practice is super common. It is piece work. That felon could get paid per vote he turned in, and the security that is supposed to protect the system from fraudulent votes doesn't work well. What you end up with are stories like this one:
San Fernando Valley residents cast provisional ballots due to equipment issue
Some San Fernando Valley voters think they are being wrongly prevented from casting a ballot in the upcoming gubernatorial recall election, but the county elections office said it was an equipment …
Red
Well-Known Member
Not impossible, but this seems at least borderline far fetched.
First, have you weighed in the fact that the man was found with a number of credit cards not belonging to him? This is at least suggestive of the traditional goal of mail theft. The cards themselves, or info in the stolen mail that allows for the application for cards. What he had in his possession, in other words, suggests more traditional mail theft- generated identity theft as a goal, not ballots.
Second, 300 ballots found. For sake of argument, call it 100 mail boxes, allowing three voting age residents per box. Obviously could be a bit more than 100 boxes. The theft would not be from boxes attached to houses. 100 houses way too risky. Too easy to be seen by residents or passing motorists. 100 landings, sets of steps, right next to a door. Very doubtful. Very risky for being seen in the time to go door to door to 100 houses.
Would have to be in rural-style delivery areas. Out boxes or curbside delivery boxes. Maybe from large banks of boxes, in situations where all the boxes are in one place, separated from the community of houses served. We’ve all seen such banks of outboxes. Park, get out on foot, strip the boxes, then beat it. Still, I’ve never seen banks of a hundred boxes, so maybe several banks. All risky, though, can be seen at any moment. (Most such banks are being replaced with central delivery cluster boxes. In that case, thief would need keys, doubtful).
Rural style curbside boxes each on separate posts and strung along the road. This is risky, as the thief will be driving into opposing traffic. The rural carrier’s vehicle has steering wheel on right side of truck, thief does not, so he has to drive to each box while facing oncoming traffic as he reaches into box from left side of car. Pretty risky, I think we can all agree. Dangerous.
What I speculated, which was mail theft from a collection can(s), and the ballots were incidental, not the goal, made more sense given the facts stated at the time. I noticed the ballots were bundled, three bundles. That suggested to me that it was outgoing mail, and dumped in the can, rather than going directly to a post office, or distribution center. Maybe a lazy worker did that, don’t know.
What I speculated in the comment you replied to I found out was an initial operating assumption. But my experience had already told me that was likely. Does not mean that’s where it led. You may find the answer through news sources. I am not going to be privy to the specifics of the Inspection Service investigation. I just knew what was being speculated by tapping my grapevine.
We’ll see, but I find your take possibly far fetched. Election fraud is very limited in the United States. I have found that folks who believe otherwise, who believe it is a real problem, a big problem, will work hard to find it, or claim they found it. They want to confirm that belief, so, at least in their own minds, they will.
I think you wanted it to be harvesting theft, and you found a way to believe it was. It sounds a bit far fetched to me, and hopefully we’ll know some day. If it was harvesting, conservative news sources will certainly spotlight it. If not, we may not hear from news sources….
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One Brow
Well-Known Member
That would mean there were would be dozens of people being told they had already cast their ballot, not a couple.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Some people in California may have those mailboxes, but not most people. I'm very much in the city in a house built in the late 70's and here are the mailboxes in front of my house in San Diego.
The entire housing tract has mailboxes in clusters of 4 exactly like this. In newer housing developments they have far bigger cluster mailboxes.
My comment on mail fraud isn't limited to that one guy they found passed out with 300 ballots. There are hundreds of guys like that. What I'm trying to communicate is that there is an industry of stealing ballots and submitting them. It wouldn't work for my ballot because I had filed to vote absentee which means the registrar of voters has my email address and sends me a confirmation. I can even log in and see how I voted.
However, there are a large group of senior voters who like to vote in person. When COVID hit, California changed so that everyone was automatically sent ballots including those voters who always vote in person. For those voters, the registrar of voters doesn't have their email address and doesn't send notifications. They wouldn't know someone had stolen their ballot from their mailbox and submitted it for money until they showed up to the polling place to cast their vote only to be told they'd already voted.
Mail theft is a felony, but this type of ballot stealing wouldn't be a thing if ballot harvesting weren't legal. In California, anyone can submit anyone's ballot without needing to identify themselves. Super-Republican Orange County went from reliable Republican to having every single Republican lose to a Democrat challenger as soon as universal mail-in balloting became a thing. If you want to believe the elderly woman in the news article wasn't telling the truth about the polling place telling her she'd already voted and that this kind of harvesting isn't happening then I can't stop you, but I don't agree.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Here is what cluster mailboxes in newer California housing developments look like:
Postal Carriers put mail in the boxes through doors in the back that open to all the mailboxes. The common door is opened by a universal key that will open all the cluster mailboxes in the area. Possession of one of these keys is a felony, but they are out there.
Postal Carriers put mail in the boxes through doors in the back that open to all the mailboxes. The common door is opened by a universal key that will open all the cluster mailboxes in the area. Possession of one of these keys is a felony, but they are out there.
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Easily picked. Laughably easily picked. Can rake many of these open. Even the cylinder locks are very flimsy protection.Here is what cluster mailboxes in newer California housing developments look like:
Postal Carriers put mail in the boxes through doors in the back that open to all the mailboxes. The common door is opened by a universal key what will open all the cluster mailboxes in the area. Possession of one of these keys is a felony, but they are out there.
Avery
Well-Known Member
I hate that we've set a precedent where if someone loses or is going to lose, it must have been fraud. It's especially silly to do so when the deck was already stacked against you.
www.nbcnews.com
As Newsom leads California recall polls, Larry Elder pushes baseless fraud claims
A website paid for by Elder's campaign on Monday predicted his defeat and blamed unsubstantiated fraud claims.
www.nbcnews.com