Election Fraud

[Al-O-Meter]

I hate that we've set a precedent where if someone loses or is going to lose, it must have been fraud. It's especially silly to do so when the deck was already stacked against you.

As Newsom leads California recall polls, Larry Elder pushes baseless fraud claims

A website paid for by Elder's campaign on Monday predicted his defeat and blamed unsubstantiated fraud claims.

www.nbcnews.com

I mostly agree with you on how ridiculous it is to always claim fraud, but if the rest of the United States adopts California's legal ballot harvesting with universal mail-in voting then no one will ever trust the results of a vote again. And they shouldn't.

We have the technology to absolutely secure our voting system and I shake my head in disbelief that we as a nation seem to have no interest in implementing it.

 

[Avery]

I mostly agree with you on how ridiculous it is to always claim fraud, but if the rest of the United States adopts California's legal ballot harvesting with universal mail-in voting then no one will ever trust the results of a vote again. And they shouldn't.

We have the technology to absolutely secure our voting system and I shake my head in disbelief that we as a nation seem to have no interest in implementing it.

I don't believe anyone affiliated any political campaign, PAC or special interest should ever help 'gather' up ballots on anyone's behalf. Just don't like it - GOTV through normal means.

Unfortunate that so many states do things in such different ways.

 

[LogGrad98]

I hate that we've set a precedent where if someone loses or is going to lose, it must have been fraud. It's especially silly to do so when the deck was already stacked against you.

As Newsom leads California recall polls, Larry Elder pushes baseless fraud claims

A website paid for by Elder's campaign on Monday predicted his defeat and blamed unsubstantiated fraud claims.

www.nbcnews.com

Unbelievable. Since they get so much attention doing this it is going to continue. Even some democrats have engaged in this ********. Our democracy is falling apart before our eyes.

 

[Avery]

Unbelievable. Since they get so much attention doing this it is going to continue. Even some democrats have engaged in this ********. Our democracy is falling apart before our eyes.

I have no doubt that super close elections where the MoE is fractional should undergo some review. What I'm not okay with is when some people latched on to the 'it's rigged' in which they lost elections by 70 points (I believe that was Errol Webber in California who refused to concede to Rep. Bass in a highly D district).

 

[LogGrad98]

I have no doubt that super close elections where the MoE is fractional should undergo some review. What I'm not okay with is when some people latched on to the 'it's rigged' in which they lost elections by 70 points (I believe that was Errol Webber in California who refused to concede to Rep. Bass in a highly D district).

What I'm not ok with us the current practice of calling "rigged" before the race even starts just because a candidate is expected to be the underdog. It's ridiculous.

Nothing has materially changed since Trump was elected. So was his first election rigged? If elections were just fine 5 years ago, and nothing has really changed, then why are literally all elections now riddled with fraud? It's just such a blatantly ******** tactic that it is comical. And even more comical is how many people legitimately believe it.

My notoriously conservative brother in law actually had this exchange on his Facebook. Regarding some local election where he lives he claimed voter fraud before the vote even happened and he said it was because of a news story that democrats were canvassing to get people to vote. Someone said, well that's legal what if republicans did it. His response was that if republicans did it, it was just fine because it was for a good reason, but if democrats do it, it's to rally the troops to commit widespread voter fraud. This is a college educated man who is currently a school principal. He's no dummy. But holy ****ing hell is he stupid. Or is it brainwashed.

Our democracy is rapidly swirling the *****er.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If elections were just fine 5 years ago, and nothing has really changed...

Sorry, but your stated premise is false. There is a massive difference between elections 5 years ago and elections now. That difference is called Universal Mail-in Voting. It is a game changer that didn't exist 5 years ago.

 

[LogGrad98]

Sorry, but your stated premise is false. There is a massive difference between elections 5 years ago and elections now. That difference is called Universal Mail-in Voting. It is a game changer that didn't exist 5 years ago.

Yeah, ok. No one ever mailed in votes before. Uh-huh. Sure.

So your premise is that every state that had widespread mail-in ballots had massive voter fraud all along? And the fact that we have increased mail-in voting means every election forever forward will be invalidated because mail-in voting is inherently fraudulent, or something? You are playing right into the hands of the demagogues that built the huge straw-man around the spectre of evil mail-in ballots.

What materially has changed when mail-in ballots have been in play for a long time? In 2016 nearly 25% of the electorate voted by mail. In 2020 that jumped to 45%. In California millions have been voting by mail since 1962, and in 2016 14.6 million votes were cast by mail, in 2020 it was 17.7 million. How is this casting the threat of fraud over literally every single election in the country when it materially isn't any different than what we have already had. The numbers went up, but it didn't change the methods or the processes. It took more time to validate. That's about it.

There is no evidence that simply increasing the percentage of mail-in ballots automatically increases instances of fraud. That's the demagogues talking, and not the data. In 2020 there were 8 convictions for voter fraud in California ⁰. None of those had anything to do with absentee ballots at all. Half of them were for buying votes. In fact in 2016 there were 8 confirmed cases of voter fraud involving absentee ballots. In 2020 it was 5.

The data do not bear out the claim that increasing the number of mail-in ballots created an increase in voter fraud. Therefore it isn't materially any different.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Yeah, ok. No one ever mailed in votes before. Uh-huh. Sure.

Nice try, but that is not what I said. What I said was that Universal Mail-in Voting didn't exist 5 years ago. You said NOTHING had changed and that simply isn't true.

So your premise is that every state that had widespread mail-in ballots had massive voter fraud all along?

No, I'm saying that in pre-pandemic times, in registering for absentee voting to be returned via mail there some things set up in the back end to provide some measure of security. Those things were NOT set up when they decided that COVID means everyone gets a ballot, voters can't come in to change their account, and registrar of voters workers wouldn't be there even if they did. Where there used to be some security measures is now a giant hole that is being exploited, especially in states where ballot harvesting is legal.

the fact that we have increased mail-in voting means every election forever forward will be invalidated because mail-in voting is inherently fraudulent

Again, no. Mail-in voting can be secure but even better would be electronic voting that uses the same identification measures banks use. I do not believe that unsolicited paper ballots mailed out en masse with the only security feature being an ink scrawl of a signature for which there may be no recent source image to match against is inadequate to prevent unscrupulous people from taking advantage.

You are playing right into the hands of the demagogues that built the huge straw-man around the spectre of evil mail-in ballots.

I'm certainly playing into the spectre of popular elections needing a foundation of trust and if the security on the election isn't adequate to prove absolute integrity to any third party audit then people will start using other potentially violent means to get their voices heard.

There is no evidence that simply increasing the percentage of mail-in ballots automatically increases instances of fraud.

You can tell yourself that if it makes you feel better but 80% of all voters support requiring voters to show an ID to vote. That was not required in this past election and a full third of the country believes the Election was stolen. Thanks to the lax security, you can't prove it wasn't. Many come unglued at the very idea of double checking the vote with an audit.

I don't personally have a dog in the big lie fight because I believe the United States is a Republic, the popular vote counts for nothing, and the Electoral College voters are the only ones that matter. However I find the falling level of trust in the system to be greatly concerning and think we need implement the extremely popular voter ID voting requirements to increase the level of trust.

 

[One Brow]

However I find the falling level of trust in the system to be greatly concerning and think we need implement the extremely popular voter ID voting requirements to increase the level of trust.

So, you're saying that we need to make voting just a little bit harder in order to make people feel better, even though the voting shouldn't matter anyway?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

So, you're saying that we need to make voting just a little bit harder in order to make people feel better, even though the voting shouldn't matter anyway?

I'm saying the overwhelming majority of people in the United States want the election secured by showing a government issued ID before being allowed to vote and I don't think that highly popular opinion is an unreasonable one.

 

[Avery]

Newsom is winning the recall 2:1 so don’t think the fraud claims will be too beneficial.

 

[Eminence]

Get a free national ID and I'm willing to support an ID requirement.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Never had to show an ID in 20+ years of voting.

The area I live in votes about 2 to 1 republican.

 

[One Brow]

I'm saying the overwhelming majority of people in the United States want the election secured by showing a government issued ID before being allowed to vote and I don't think that highly popular opinion is an unreasonable one.

A majority also support increased access to mail-in voting. Perhaps you don't see a contradiction there.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

A majority also support increased access to mail-in voting. Perhaps you don't see a contradiction there.

Actually, I don't. We get Amazon stuff delivered same day. We get whatever restaurant we want delivered when we want it. We have Uber/Lyft to give us a ride wherever we want to go any time we want it. Making stuff easy and immediate is both desirable and doable.

Amazon does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.
Postmates does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.
Lyft does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.
Uber does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.

Our society is filled with things that are easy/immediate AND have some measure of security. It isn't a contradiction to want both. It isn't beyond our capability to do both. Those who keep saying that we have to sacrifice security to make it easy are really saying we have to sacrifice security simply because we don't want the elections to be secure. We don't have to sacrifice anything. We can do both.

 

[babe]

I have not seen an update. I have contacts in the U.S Postal Inspection Service, and experience, both with the Postal Service itself, and, in particular, exactly what I spoke of in that comment at the time. That specific type of crime, of which there is an uptick in recent years. Across the nation. I have a great deal experience in the subject, but I’m not going to get into my old sources or my earlier life. If I hear of an update, last I hear the Inspection Service was still investigating, I’ll update this. Or if someone else knows, by all means post it. I had actually forgotten about this thread, but not the crime. I was talking about the subject in general with a friend today. What I said at the time made the most sense to me, for the reasons I speculated on at that time. Thanks for reminding me of this thread…..

Addiction recovery in fail mode.

US Postal Service is the subject of accusations of corruption, political corruption, bought and paid "service" to union-connected payola schemes.

Don't need petty drug criminals scouring neighborhood mailboxes in mid day while folks are at school or at work.

You have petty union operatives just grabbing fistfuls of ballot outta mail bags in local mail rooms, and passing them off to the.paid outside help for filling them out, then to the paid "ballot harvesters" with their cars or vans for stuffing into the ballot boxes in the dead of night, or to the paid help "election officials".

Buying elections is huge business. That is why we have to have 3.5 Trillion dollar democrat payola bills passed through congress to keep the machine well oiled.

Money, even if it is faux currency, makes the political world go round.

I'll try again to get back on that wagon. I was born an addict, just don't wanna die being an addict.

 

[babe]

Na, I was a member of the old site, until I realized Jason or one of the Site Admin had my IP. In fact, I used to post quite a bit on the old site.

You cant trust anybody these days. This site has become a microcosm of society at large. People voting in polls based on other members political affiliation, or has someone slighted me in the past. It's honestly why I dont post in the main forum, just browse.

Smartass goofs back then were running a trick on a lot of people, a sort of webz "mirror" that would annoy users with a reflected IP address/computer info "sticky" on your screen. It wouldn't show up on theirs, they still didn't know your IP or computer model.

I don't know your level of expertise on webz stuff. I'm a complete moron, probably. Just wondering how you knew what someone else had on you. No need to explain it to me here. As in "Don't be a fool and try to tell me>"

This site is the exact opposite of a mjicrocosm of society at large. It's little band of oddballs that don't fit in anywhere else.

 

[babe]

Actually, I don't. We get Amazon stuff delivered same day. We get whatever restaurant we want delivered when we want it. We have Uber/Lyft to give us a ride wherever we want to go any time we want it. Making stuff easy and immediate is both desirable and doable.

Amazon does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.
Postmates does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.
Lyft does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.
Uber does not use a scribble of ink for which it may not even have a recent known-good standard to compare against as the only form of identification.

Our society is filled with things that are easy/immediate AND have some measure of security. It isn't a contradiction to want both. It isn't beyond our capability to do both. Those who keep saying that we have to sacrifice security to make it easy are really saying we have to sacrifice security simply because we don't want the elections to be secure. We don't have to sacrifice anything. We can do both.

The whole lineup of reasons to make fraud easy are necessary to the Democrats trying to hold up a false narrataive that America is going purple then blue. The Open Borders idea is failing them. The people coming here, besides a cadre of trained extremists, are going to be a new wave of Republicans who just damn won't buy any more Marxism like what ruined their country.

It cost a billion dollars to buy Newsome's last few months in office. They'll lay out the bucks again in an attempt to re-elect him. It is just going to cost too much even for the billionaires to keep up this racket.

 

[Red]

Don't need petty drug criminals scouring neighborhood mailboxes in mid day while folks are at school or at work.

You have petty union operatives just grabbing fistfuls of ballot outta mail bags in local mail rooms, and passing them off to the.paid outside help for filling them out, then to the paid "ballot harvesters" with their cars or vans for stuffing into the ballot boxes in the dead of night, or to the paid help "election officials".

C’mon, babe. At least get real. I know what I’m talking about. You really do not. You’re pulling this nonsense out of thin air. You have no evidence other than your imagination to make the above accusation.

Listen to the postal inspector quoted in this piece. He knows what he is talking about. People are looking for election fraud in this instance because people want to find election fraud in this instance. And what your saying in the above statement is not true. Not in this case. Not in any case.

Felon caught with gun, drugs and thousands of pieces of mail including suspected recall ballots in California

A man was arrested in Torrance, California, while in possession of thousands of pieces of mail - some of which appears to be mail-in ballots.

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

 

[babe]

C’mon, babe. At least get real. I know what I’m talking about. You really do not. You’re pulling this nonsense out of thin air. You have no evidence other than your imagination to make the above accusation.

Felon caught with gun, drugs and thousands of pieces of mail including suspected recall ballots in California

A man was arrested in Torrance, California, while in possession of thousands of pieces of mail - some of which appears to be mail-in ballots.

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

I have not worked for the Postal Service. I have heard accounts from some who did, or still do. Some have filed affidavits stating their claim, under an oath with a criminal penalty for perjury. Whistle blowers, probably not making it up, putting their jobs on the line.

I make my case on reason of circumstances objectively demonstrable and on the public record. We know there are postal workers who are union members. We know workplace circumstances with supervisors directing subordinates, with the power to fire. We know humans generally are corruptible, and we know that institutional corruption exists today in many federal operations. We know politicians and federal employees who are known to do stuff for one another. Legal hopefully. Some illegal perhaps that ought to be investigated.

To prove your claim, you'd effectively have to prove God is objectively demonstrable truth.

Well, you know, people don't know who or what "God" is ,and imagine something else entirely. And that kind of a fake God just won't ever be real. Just like Marxism. Imagine that. And almost nobody wants to believe in a God who is actually demonstrable, or to be present in His immediate Presence.

But a ballot is an objective article, and voters should also be objectively demonstrable persons. Citizens eligible to vote, proven eligible by objective facts and evidence. Address. photo ID. Citizenship. Demonstrable voters provable to partisan observers. And ballots should be demonstrable articles, visible, verifiable, and countable to partisan observation. Subject o audit and even a complete recount if needed.

People know ballots get lost in the mail. People know their ballot didn't come like it was supposed to. I've had my own mailbox raided. Many others have made that complaint. Some even got got it on cam. And we have cam of officials refusing to investigate it, with a clear photo of the perp. And judges refusing to take the case. Well, legal beagles know even photo evidence can be tgampered with or fake entirely. There are legal arguments regarding admissability of evidence, and any judge can just give even real evidence a heave ho. Then you have to appeal his decision, and you have to think of some reason another judge will want to take it. It cost a helluva kot ofmoney.

It would have cost billions to to push the election fraud issues.

People also have checked to track their mailed ballot, and reported it got lost or not counted, and officials couldn't come up with the ballot or the reason it was not counted. And judges refusing to take the case. Over all personal or individual voter complaints of this kind may be as high as 1% of all voters in 2020. There are ongoing investigations, and thousands of people charged in some manner of vote fraud in 2020, with evidence to back the charges. It would have bankrupted any voter to push their case in 2020 to get a ballot when theirs was stolen.

So what do we do. We get our government officials to make better voting law and do stuff to prevent it from continuing.

It's just gonna get real expensive for our corrupt officials and their supporters to keep buying elections. It should bet so expensive they'll all go bankrupt, and go to jail to boot.

The fact is, so many people have seen what this all was, and it's just gonna get hander and harder for the perps to make it work again and again.