Election Fraud

[Red]

You have petty union operatives just grabbing fistfuls of ballot outta mail bags in local mail rooms, and passing them off to the.paid outside help for filling them out, then to the paid "ballot harvesters" with their cars or vans for stuffing into the ballot boxes in the dead of night, or to the paid help "election officials".

Can you provide me with the zip codes? I’d like to know the offices involved.

To prove your claim, you'd effectively have to prove God is objectively demonstrable truth.

The zip codes would be a start for your claim. I want you to prove the above. You made a very damning charge against what was, until most recent years and a conflicted Postmaster, the public’s top choice for trusted government institutions. You laid an elaborate scheme of election fraud at their feet. Are you always this irresponsible with your accusations?

Anyway, of course I’ll get over it babe.

 

[babe]

I have watched many hours of court video footage of people making allegations, in the form of sworn testimony, to acts of mail fraud withinthe federal Postal Service operations.

The systemic suppression of such testimony in our courts would make a good case.

If this were people making allegations of racial discrimination, it would perhaps find some legal legs. Well, even those kinds of things don't really get legal legs. As in money to hire lawyers. Butt they get free play in media .

The most damning thing about our political media that I have ever seen is the blatant suppression of fraud investigations in 2020.

It has angered millions of Americans who have seen or believed accounts...... shared common stories...... individually in private settings to such an extent that even media suppression is not really working.

Americans are not going to just let this go on

 

[babe]

Can you provide me with the zip codes? I’d like to know the offices involved.

The zip codes would be a start for your claim. I want you to prove the above. You made a very damning charge against what was, until most recent years and a conflicted Postmaster, the public’s top choice for trusted government institutions. You laid an elaborate scheme of election fraud at their feet. Are you always this irresponsible with your accusations?

Anyway, of course I’ll get over it babe.

Pretty strong challenge. I have seen this kind of specific information just ignored. Motions denied. Case dismissed.

I have seen worse corruption in courts in my time though, over money matters.

Pretty much, our legal system is broke. We have to start over with some new elected officials who will not fall into this hell hole of interests. We have to reform our bar associations and legal profession from the ground up. It'll be a process. It starts with people seeing it for what it is.

 

[babe]

Well, Trump was a sort of flash in the pan on the subject of voter fraud.

The fact is we have systemic voting fraud building across decades with only intermittent reform.

I see the Brookings Institution, whom I "imagine" is near and dear to our Red's heart, delving into the issue to support the preponderance of American voting practices.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/electionfraud_chapter.pdf

In the Philippines, I had some first hand accounts of methods in use there and then. I was a political junkie even then. Things haven't gotten better.

There is a system. If you get along, you can go along. That's all there is to it.

The Brookings Institution is a Rockefeller outfit. With assets of 550M it received a grant of 2.5M for 220-2022 from the Rockefeller foundation. As American as Apple Pie or Apple.Candidate Ferdinand Marcos circa 1968 was supplied with a planeload of US currency, according to someone who told me he was responsible for receiving the plane in the Batanes Islands and transferring it to a local airplane for delivery to an airstrip in Ilocan province. The cash was in the form of greenbacks highly negotiable, even though they were a batch that was recorded as "destroyed" by the Treasury. It was used to buy votes outright at the polling places.

So I knew Corazon and Benigno Aquino..... well, their uncle was a friend. Another friend was Marcos' right hand man. Another friend's uncle was the other "right-hand man". Well, you never know what to believe, really. I was riding around in the provinces with communist rebels too. They told me how the Americans gave all the leftover US military stuff from WWII to the Tagalog ethnic folks. I was a babbler with notions of teaching people the good way.

But the communist guys with the AK-47s were the sons of the elites in Manila. Don't ask me why. People gonna be free. Gonna make their own way.

But the investigations into the origins of the Trump/Russia hoax also found tracks into the Brookings Institution.

Like I said, as American as Apple Pie, or Apple. As American as slick vote fraud can be.

Looking through this report, I see the other hand of the Brookings thinkers figuring out how to game the election for Hillary, and how upsetting Trump was to that version of America.

Couldn't say the Brookings Institution is some damn sort of mastermind outfit or even a guiding hand "influencer" outfit, but just an example of how deep the lines of power and influence can run in America, and where some of the strings are that can be pulled to create a narrative.

Still, there is no credibility, so far as I'm concerned, that the Brookings Institution is anything like what most Americans love America for, or any kind of moral authority on fair elections or good voting practices.

 

[babe]

I have also seen the game room where the 2020 election was worked out, so far as possible, by the Institutional America we all work for, on jmultiple paths of possible devolvement.

If Trump had won, we would have had cities burning including Washington and the Capitol building. Who knows what the military would have been doing.

We dodged that bullet I'd say.

The events sketched out in case he lost included Trump "supporters" rioting as well. Various levels of challenges.

over all, our "thinkers" believe that the global reset can be well-managed. I could cite a current CFR article more or less positing 2021 as the great turning point where America disengaged as the solitary overt powerhouse, and a world without war developed along lines of social justice and good managementj worldwide.

Those "thinkers" are dreamers in a fantasyland. Like me, lounging in mansions in Forbes Park one day, and tiding in jeeps in the rice fields the next.

So we have open borders, with packs of terrorists settling in for the show. Millions of people in disrupted backward countries with no idea of birth regulation, who will now be using birth control and living in modern little plywood/gluechip shacks all over America---well, that's what todays homes in the USA really are..... where the fumes will reduce sperm counts and make women go nuts as well. And they'll have slave wage jobs working for big meat packing corporations or fake burger shacks.

And then we'll have race riots, civil war, and a few more pandemics.

Population control on steroids.

And our thinkers will go on thinking in their ivory towered Think Tank halls.

Until some madman breaks outta control like Hitler did, and goes for it all.

Our Institutions had to take out Marcos because he turned rogue, and we've taken out other rogue leaders like him.

The big flaw in the best laid plans of our thinker class is our humanity. We really will not solve that problem.

And that, @Red, is what makes fools of true believers.

 

[Red]

Doesn’t sound like it was actually related to election fraud

It is election fraud. Unless you have lived in an area where ballot harvesting is legal, and this is why ballot harvesting is illegal almost everywhere on Earth, it is hard to believe.

The story behind the 'passed out man found with 300 California recall ballots'

The incident went viral on conservative forums where users cast doubt on the legitimacy...

www.sfgate.com

Here's how Facebook posts from a CA police department fueled right-wing conspiracy theories

Two Facebook posts by a California police department fueled right-wing conspiracies theories about voter fraud during the state's 2021 gubernatorial recall election.It started with an August 17, 2021, post featuring pictures of a handgun, mail, what appears to be methamphetamine, and pills."Last...

www.rawstory.com

Police press release. I speculated the mail might have been stolen from a collection can, in fact it was from a postal vehicle:

https://www.torranceca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/71516/637768761835100000

 

[babe]

The story behind the 'passed out man found with 300 California recall ballots'

The incident went viral on conservative forums where users cast doubt on the legitimacy...

www.sfgate.com

Here's how Facebook posts from a CA police department fueled right-wing conspiracy theories

Two Facebook posts by a California police department fueled right-wing conspiracies theories about voter fraud during the state's 2021 gubernatorial recall election.It started with an August 17, 2021, post featuring pictures of a handgun, mail, what appears to be methamphetamine, and pills."Last...

www.rawstory.com

Police press release. I speculated the mail might have been stolen from a collection can, in fact it was from a postal vehicle:

https://www.torranceca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/71516/637768761835100000

You keep trying to evade the truth. Maybe the investigators or reporters here are doing the same.

The claim here is now that it was theft from a postal vehicle with assorted pieces of mail. So the assertion that this was not election fraud is now advanced. But the actual evidence proves it was actually election fraud, with an attempt at official denial and/or cover-up to boot..

If you will read the SF Gate link, you will see the absolute proof that this is not only election fraud, but an official attempt with collusion between the postal service and the investigators to cover up the fraud.

The statement in the report there says there were 300 Gavin Newsome ballots in the mixed assortment stolen from the postal vehicle.

No other candidate's ballots.

statistically, even in a heavy democrat area, which Orange County is not, you would never have a lot of ballots all going one way in an election.

The fact that in many areas with a close vote, some late batches came out very heavy for the dems, is also absolute statistical proof of fraud.

 

[Gameface]

You keep trying to evade the truth. Maybe the investigators or reporters here are doing the same.

The claim here is now that it was theft from a postal vehicle with assorted pieces of mail. So the assertion that this was not election fraud is now advanced. But the actual evidence proves it was actually election fraud, with an attempt at official denial and/or cover-up to boot..

If you will read the SF Gate link, you will see the absolute proof that this is not only election fraud, but an official attempt with collusion between the postal service and the investigators to cover up the fraud.

The statement in the report there says there were 300 Gavin Newsome ballots in the mixed assortment stolen from the postal vehicle.

No other candidate's ballots.

statistically, even in a heavy democrat area, which Orange County is not, you would never have a lot of ballots all going one way in an election.

The fact that in many areas with a close vote, some late batches came out very heavy for the dems, is also absolute statistical proof of fraud.

Why do you hate America?

 

[LogGrad98]

Why do you hate America?

Can I hate America too? Seriously though I see more and more I do not like and less and less to be proud of. Sad really.

 

[The Thriller]

This thread sucks

 

[Red]

You keep trying to evade the truth. Maybe the investigators or reporters here are doing the same.

The claim here is now that it was theft from a postal vehicle with assorted pieces of mail. So the assertion that this was not election fraud is now advanced. But the actual evidence proves it was actually election fraud, with an attempt at official denial and/or cover-up to boot..

If you will read the SF Gate link, you will see the absolute proof that this is not only election fraud, but an official attempt with collusion between the postal service and the investigators to cover up the fraud.

The statement in the report there says there were 300 Gavin Newsome ballots in the mixed assortment stolen from the postal vehicle.

No other candidate's ballots.

statistically, even in a heavy democrat area, which Orange County is not, you would never have a lot of ballots all going one way in an election.

The fact that in many areas with a close vote, some late batches came out very heavy for the dems, is also absolute statistical proof of fraud.

No. I went by the evidence available at the time. The articles at the time stated the man was found with credit cards that were not in his name, and lots of mail. Not just those bundles of ballots. Lots of other mail as well. That pointed to mail theft in service to identity theft. Bingo! That’s exactly what it was. You need to understand I knew it was a very common type of crime and increasing in frequency. Only guess I made that was not correct was where the mail came from. Not a collection can, but from a postal vehicle. Carrier must have left his/her truck unlocked while it was unattended.

But, bottom line is that it was easy to guess what had happened, and I guessed correctly. I stated at the time the fact that he had all that mail indicated the ballots were just incidental to the theft. Should we assume he stood at the mail truck and screened everything, looking for mail pieces he thought might be useful in identity theft? Far more likely that he grabbed a postal bucket full of outgoing mail, and took off with it, including ballots that were of no use to him.

You can believe what you want. I knew exactly what it almost surely was, and said I would update this thread if and when an answer was provided. It came through my feed yesterday, so I found the thread and updated it.

I’m going with the common sense I went with at the time of the incident. You can convolute it if it pleases you, but this was easy.

Lol, babe, you said recently that nobody should ever take you seriously. You should picked sensibly the hills you want to die on man. You’re a funny dude. I like you….

 

[Red]

To tell you the truth, I don’t even remember the far Right having a field day claiming it had to be mail fraud. I don’t remember at all that police released photos of just the ballot bundles. All I remember is using experience, and the stated facts at the time, to common sense the answer that was most likely. The articles I posted yesterday, blaming misleading photos of the ballot bundles and police Facebook posts, triggering the Right, I don’t recall any of that at the time.

AI-O-Meter told me it was election theft, and went on about how easy it would be to rifle through curbside mail boxes. Then babe weighed in with all the crooked postal workers that must have been involved. Which I found comical. I tried to explain the facts spoke otherwise. And I forgot all about it until those stories showed up in my feed, and I had trouble searching out the old thread that was involved. But here it is, didn’t think I was ever going to find the thread, and there’s your answer, as I promised. One that was right there all along, if one did not let the ballots trigger more nefarious schemes in one’s…….imagination!

 

[Red]

The statement in the report there says there were 300 Gavin Newsome ballots in the mixed assortment stolen from the postal vehicle.

No other candidate's ballots.

There was one recall ballot, with two questions. Recall or don’t recall Newsom was the first question, answer yes or no. If one answered yes, there were other candidates to pick, the second question on the ballot. The SF article in fact states that all 300 recall ballots were UNOPENED, and NOT DELIVERED. Get it? Undelivered to the home addresses yet. (I missed that “undelivered” part at the time, but the facts still screamed mail theft in service to identity theft, and being bundled would have suggested undelivered, in hindsight). So how can you say all 300 ballots voted to recall Newsom, if those ballots were undelivered, and therefore not yet filled in at all?? It’s OK to be mistaken, babe. I’m sure I make mistakes every day. But in your rush to confirm your own conspiracy theory, you did not carefully read the SF article. That article stated, in speaking of the police dept.’s second Facebook post: “This second post, critically, did not mention the fact the 300 ballots — all unopened and not delivered — were among thousands of pieces of mail.”. Unopened and not delivered, babe, means not yet delivered to the homes of eligible voters. AI-O-Meter assumed delivered, but not yet retrieved by the homeowner from his/her curbside box. I assume that’s why he speculated that someone had rifled curbside boxes before people retrieved their daily mail.

 

[LogGrad98]

To tell you the truth, I don’t even remember the far Right having a field day claiming it had to be mail fraud. I don’t remember at all that police released photos of just the ballot bundles. All I remember is using experience, and the stated facts at the time, to common sense the answer that was most likely. The articles I posted yesterday, blaming misleading photos of the ballot bundles and police Facebook posts, triggering the Right, I don’t recall any of that at the time.

AI-O-Meter told me it was election theft, and went on about how easy it would be to rifle through curbside mail boxes. Then babe weighed in with all the crooked postal workers that must have been involved. Which I found comical. I tried to explain the facts spoke otherwise. And I forgot all about it until those stories showed up in my feed, and I had trouble searching out the old thread that was involved. But here it is, didn’t think I was ever going to find the thread, and there’s your answer, as I promised. One that was right there all along, if one did not let the ballots trigger more nefarious schemes in one’s…….imagination!

Facts and reason cannot overcome the power of the conspiracy. Conspiracies are far more compelling than mere facts.

 

[babe]

No. I went by the evidence available at the time. The articles at the time stated the man was found with credit cards that were not in his name, and lots of mail. Not just those bundles of ballots. Lots of other mail as well. That pointed to mail theft in service to identity theft. Bingo! That’s exactly what it was. You need to understand I knew it was a very common type of crime and increasing in frequency. Only guess I made that was not correct was where the mail came from. Not a collection can, but from a postal vehicle. Carrier must have left his/her truck unlocked while it was unattended.

But, bottom line is that it was easy to guess what had happened, and I guessed correctly. I stated at the time the fact that he had all that mail indicated the ballots were just incidental to the theft. Should we assume he stood at the mail truck and screened everything, looking for mail pieces he thought might be useful in identity theft? Far more likely that he grabbed a postal bucket full of outgoing mail, and took off with it, including ballots that were of no use to him.

You can believe what you want. I knew exactly what it almost surely was, and said I would update this thread if and when an answer was provided. It came through my feed yesterday, so I found the thread and updated it.

I’m going with the common sense I went with at the time of the incident. You can convolute it if it pleases you, but this was easy.

Lol, babe, you said recently that nobody should ever take you seriously. You should picked sensibly the hills you want to die on man. You’re a funny dude. I like you….

Well, so I like you too. Probably almost any human in fact.

We don't come made with any kind of sensibilities except maybe Mama's love. The rest we have to make up somehow.

The idea that we know anything, ultimately, is our fondest delusion.

So I never followed this story very well. I think I did hear that there was some stolen mail in the car when it was found. Identity theft is I think lucrative enough to motivate someone, but it does take a little thought..... how to rob a postal van or truck, where you might have such an opportunity. A crowbar and a corner mail can might be easier at 2 AM, whatever.

After I wrote my bit above, I got to thinking. Can I trust a liberal rag like SF Gate? Don't they just have a lot of very bad reporters who write stuff off the top of their heads even worse than I do? Can I believe a police investigation in a fascist
State like California, with crooks like Newsome and Pelosi running everything?

No, I cannot just believe a report like this, or even the news then or now.

The reporter might have just gotten it all wrong in saying "300 Newsome ballots" were found. There might have been 600. And there might have been 300 ballots for the Larry Edwards guy. They might have had postmarks showing they were collected in Hawthorne, or some other place, there might have been no pastmarks at all, showing they were picked up somewhere and were on the way to the Post Office.

My opinion about pervasive and systematic fraud in elections derives from official data, which also could be all wrong somehow. Stuff like 80% turnout in the same area where 30% of registered voters can't be found.

Stuff like caches of ballots being found that are all for one side of the election, supposedly collected from where-ever.

You see, there is math involved in statistics. Some facts of math can prove a fraud.

In statistics, where there is a population of 90% "D" balls and 10% "R" balls, the odds of not getting any R balls in a sample set is 9/10 exp 10. It happens sometimes. About 30% of a set of ten yielding no "R" balls is the mean probability. And close to that you'll get 2 "R" balls. Rarely, 3. If you can reliably guess such results several times in a row, you might consider becomeing a gambler and facing a life of being thrown out of Casinos or carted off to jails to explain your skills. The odds of consecutively getting that result for sets of ten thirty times in a row is pretty close to 0. That is what I call statistical proof.

The numbers I saw in real time watching election results all night long in Nov 2020 are not rationally believable in statistical terms

But you are right. I would need to see that cache of mail myself, before it was stampered with, and carefully examine the ballots, to believe I knew what happened. It would be nice if police recorded events like that as they came on the scene, and we could see the facts first hand.

 

[babe]

There was one recall ballot, with two questions. Recall or don’t recall Newsom was the first question, answer yes or no. If one answered yes, there were other candidates to pick, the second question on the ballot. The SF article in fact states that all 300 recall ballots were UNOPENED, and NOT DELIVERED. Get it? Undelivered to the home addresses yet. (I missed that “undelivered” part at the time, but the facts still screamed mail theft in service to identity theft, and being bundled would have suggested undelivered, in hindsight). So how can you say all 300 ballots voted to recall Newsom, if those ballots were undelivered, and therefore not yet filled in at all?? It’s OK to be mistaken, babe. I’m sure I make mistakes every day. But in your rush to confirm your own conspiracy theory, you did not carefully read the SF article. That article stated, in speaking of the police dept.’s second Facebook post: “This second post, critically, did not mention the fact the 300 ballots — all unopened and not delivered — were among thousands of pieces of mail.”. Unopened and not delivered, babe, means not yet delivered to the homes of eligible voters. AI-O-Meter assumed delivered, but not yet retrieved by the homeowner from his/her curbside box. I assume that’s why he speculated that someone had rifled curbside boxes before people retrieved their daily mail.

OK, so you miss another point here.

If this was outgoing mail, from the election officials to the voters.... "undelivered", as you say, then we need to fix our terminology. They were not "Newsome" ballots, but "Recall ballots". As I read, very sparingly, the SF Gate article, I recall they were termed "Newsome ballots", not "Edwards Ballots" or "Recall Ballots". To be "Newsome Ballots" they would need to be in favor of Newsome.

Still 300 ballots in the hands of someone in a car would allow that someone a chance to vote them all the way he wanted. Mail theft, therefore, becomes a good reason not to do mail ballots like that. Or we need absolutely to verify signatures or perhaps an even more failsafe proof the proper voter did the ballot. And how do we stop the loss of ballots by theft on the return to the election officials. We do the best we can, and then use some auditing, hopefully, to determine reliable counting of mailed in ballots.

I'll be making a response to Log on the "Conspiracy Theory" bit. I don't think that covers simple cheating or local corruption issues.

I Think you should understand that I take the rest of your comments appreciatively.

 

[babe]

Facts and reason cannot overcome the power of the conspiracy. Conspiracies are far more compelling than mere facts.

The use of the term "Conspiracy Theory" derives from a CIA policy of denial originated in the early 1950s to suppress citizens who were saying true stuff that was inconvenient to the new order. My father worked at a military supply plant where about 80 German scientists were employed. These were, more precisely, experts from the Nazi regime. They were given new names, many of them Jewish-sounding names, and taught English so they could pass as Americans. The claim that we were bringing in large numbers of former enemies and giving them our top corporate jobs was kinda sensitive. Never mind the fact that American Industrialists, pissed off with the enforcement of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act in the 1930s actually investing in German industries and build the Nazi war machine, was also kinda sensitive. To keep the rubes in the American hinterlands from getting unduly alarmed, the CIA used "Conspiracy Theory" against every true fact they needed to suppress.

When I see people throw out this cheap analysis, rather than actually look at the details in support of the claims, I have to try really hard to work up some sympathy.

A "Conspiracy" in real life invoves two or more people, who relying on secrecy to avoid any unwanted consequences, work together somehow to get something done. The basics are simple. 2+ people, a secret plan, maybe an actual effort.

You should expect the world to be full of conspiracies.

And full of people who wonder what is going on.

 

[Red]

Facts and reason cannot overcome the power of the conspiracy. Conspiracies are far more compelling than mere facts.

OMG, what have I done resurrecting this thread, haha. Last thing on my mind was this story, and then there it was in my news feed. “Oh, look at this, where the hell was that thread?” And it took awhile to find. I worked for this affront, lol…

babe, I know you’re there, I was just familiar with the type of crime that the original stories told me it very well could be. I felt the odds always favored it. All the relevant facts were right there from the start, if you were familiar with that type of crime. Kind of an old fashioned form of identity theft, but still works obviously.

 

[Gameface]

The use of the term "Conspiracy Theory" derives from a CIA policy of denial originated in the early 1950s to suppress citizens who were saying true stuff that was inconvenient to the new order. My father worked at a military supply plant where about 80 German scientists were employed. These were, more precisely, experts from the Nazi regime. They were given new names, many of them Jewish-sounding names, and taught English so they could pass as Americans. The claim that we were bringing in large numbers of former enemies and giving them our top corporate jobs was kinda sensitive. Never mind the fact that American Industrialists, pissed off with the enforcement of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act in the 1930s actually investing in German industries and build the Nazi war machine, was also kinda sensitive. To keep the rubes in the American hinterlands from getting unduly alarmed, the CIA used "Conspiracy Theory" against every true fact they needed to suppress.

When I see people throw out this cheap analysis, rather than actually look at the details in support of the claims, I have to try really hard to work up some sympathy.

A "Conspiracy" in real life invoves two or more people, who relying on secrecy to avoid any unwanted consequences, work together somehow to get something done. The basics are simple. 2+ people, a secret plan, maybe an actual effort.

You should expect the world to be full of conspiracies.

And full of people who wonder what is going on.

No.

NO!

There are conspiracy theory suckers who are a threat to our society. You saying what you've said puts you firmly in that camp. You are a disease that is harmful to the United States of America and the regular people who live here just trying to get by. You are harmful! You are destructive! You are NOT a truth teller, you are the "useful idiot" that you have often decried. Wake the **** up! Wake up! You can't invent your own reality! You can't live in a fantasy of your own making! You can't just spin yarns that sound good and go with it.

There is truth! Reality is real! You are not living here. You are living in a fantasy land. Wake the **** up! Wake up!

Wake up!

Wake up!

Please, please, please... Wake up!

 

[Ron Mexico]

The use of the term "Conspiracy Theory" derives from a CIA policy of denial originated in the early 1950s to...

I didn't read past this. But this is completely incorrect and anyone who puts more than a quarter second into research can find this to be false.