Enes Kanter still unsigned

[Stifle Tower]

In what way? and be specific. I'm not interested in generalities.

AS a Kanter hater, I'll concede the Jazz mismanaged him in Year 2. But that was it.

Year 1: Enes as a rookie. Hadn't played college basketball, extremely raw. Strike shortened season, so short training camp. Enes plays in all 66 games and averages 13 mins/per. I'd say that was pretty fair.

Year 2: Enes stuck behing Big Al. Minutes only increase to 15/per. As said previously, Enes deserved more. Jazz were pushing for the playoffs and went with the veterans, so no trade of Al at the deadline. But watch Enes' footwork and moves. I think he benefitted GREATLY from working with Jefferson.

Year 3: Jazz made Enes the starter by not re-signing Jefferson. Sounds pretty fair to me. Enes was HORRIFIC on defense so he was moved back to a reserve. Then re-instated as a starter later in the year. Averaged just under 27 mins/per. Is that unfair?

Year 4: Again, Jazz show faith in Enes by having him start. Kanter is again a statue on defense. Enes grouses because Favors is getting more time and Gobert is starting to eat into his playing time. Averaged just over 27 mins with Utah before the trade. And 31 mins with OKC after the trade.

At OKC, he is allowed to just hang around the basket, no other responsibilities. At Utah, they wanted him to also be a threat from outside. I guess some could make a case for "mismanagement." He was also held accountable for his defense in Utah. Not so in OKC. Kanter wanted to be the focal point and for the team to be built around him and what HE wanted to do/not do. Still remember what Richard Jefferson said about him on the way out...and we were critical of RJ. But it was true, Kanter just doesn't think defense is important.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Interesting article on Kanter. It's not just Jazzfanz haters who recognize what a liability he is defensively. Very interesting that his offensive numbers don't push overall team offense up very much.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/enes-kanter-may-be-one-of-the-last-players-to-cash-in-on-hollow-numbers/

"Without Real Plus-Minus (RPM), for instance, you wouldn’t know that Kanter had the worst on-court defensive influence of any center last season. And without SportVU player tracking data, you wouldn’t know Kanter allowed the highest field goal percentage at the rim of any qualified[SUP]1[/SUP] big man a year ago. The recent advent of deeper NBA data has made it tougher for poor defenders to hide their shortcomings.

Surprisingly (at least to me), Kanter’s offense also suffers on the sabermetric front: He doesn’t appear to help his teams score as efficiently as would be expected from his basic statistics. Only a few players have scored as much, and with as much efficiency,[SUP]2[/SUP] as Kanter has over the past three seasons, but it doesn’t seem to matter. During Kanter’s career, his teams have scored 1.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor than without, and — perhaps not coincidentally — he had the second-worst offensive Box Plus/Minus (BPM) of any player in the aforementioned group, and the fifth-worst offensive RPM."

 

[gregbroncs]

Care to give an example of a player traded for late first rounder and scraps who gets max money same season?
Because obviously the Jazz can't be the first team to end up with an RFA who about to get max which they aren't prepared to match.

first I don't consider what the Jazz got as scraps.
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second, why would I care if it's happened or not before? Have teams lost players because they did not want to match a contract that was offered? Yes they have. That is the only question that matters. The Jazz knew he would get offers they were unwilling to match. Therefore they went out and got what they could.
.
And I said then and I feel it's been proven that the Jazz won that trade. They simply traded nothing for something. If they were not going to match they keeping him would have been stupid.

 

[zbone]

At OKC, he is allowed to just hang around the basket, no other responsibilities. At Utah, they wanted him to also be a threat from outside. I guess some could make a case for "mismanagement." He was also held accountable for his defense in Utah. Not so in OKC. Kanter wanted to be the focal point and for the team to be built around him and what HE wanted to do/not do. Still remember what Richard Jefferson said about him on the way out...and we were critical of RJ. But it was true, Kanter just doesn't think defense is important.

You are close but this is not the whole story. Kanter repeatedly was either benched or minutes significantly cut after great performances. It's also known Corbin spent zero effort to explain players why this happens. There were also several minor issues between Kanter the org such as affiliated media bashing him and his twitter account crack down after fairly innocent twits. Things like that add up.

 

[Spinoza]

I didn't know about the RJ quote so I looked it up

Richard Jefferson on talking with Enes Kanter, "He believes that offense is more important than defense. Yes, I'm telling that to the media. Those are his own words. Not saying that he says that they're equally important. He says that in the playoffs, you need good offensive players. And I was like, you will not find a championship team that doesn't know to get stops in the last five minutes of the game."

 

[Stifle Tower]

You are close but this is not the whole story. Kanter repeatedly was either benched or minutes significantly cut after great performances. It's also known Corbin spent zero effort to explain players why this happens. There were also several minor issues between Kanter the org such as affiliated media bashing him and his twitter account crack down after fairly innocent twits. Things like that add up.

And i conceded in the 2nd season he had a valid argument. But that's what happens when you are a backup. I think every player understands when you get big minutes because a starter is out or you are playing the entire 4th due to a blowout, your minutes aren't going to be the same the next game out. Will also concede Corbin was a poor communicator, just like Sloan. But he was given a starting role in Years 3 and 4. Media bashing him? You're damn right they bashed him! He was one of the worst defenders among bigs in the league. Kanter couldn't stand the heat, wouldn't work on his defense so he got out of the kitchen. I can understand that. It's like Pablo Sandoval in MLB. He hated the Giants putting a weight clause in his contract. So he left and is free to eat as many donuts as he wants in Boston.

 

[zbone]

And i conceded in the 2nd season he had a valid argument. But that's what happens when you are a backup. I think every player understands when you get big minutes because a starter is out or you are playing the entire 4th due to a blowout, your minutes aren't going to be the same the next game out. Will also concede Corbin was a poor communicator, just like Sloan. But he was given a starting role in Years 3 and 4. Media bashing him? You're damn right they bashed him! He was one of the worst defenders among bigs in the league. Kanter couldn't stand the heat, wouldn't work on his defense so he got out of the kitchen. I can understand that. It's like Pablo Sandoval in MLB. He hated the Giants putting a weight clause in his contract. So he left and is free to eat as many donuts as he wants in Boston.

He was undeservedly benched in his third year as well. Almost two full years of Corbin crap is sufficient to alienate a player. Don't forget that Hayward was happy to jump the ship as well. Those all are mistakes which led to eventually getting 20 cents on the dollar which was my initial point. Emergence of Gobert does not excuse management for the way they handled Kanter situation. If not for Gobert they would match max offer sheet and we likely ended up with a disgruntled maxed player who plays poor defense.

It's Jazz management fault that after 3 years of Kanter we were not sure if he is worth keeping or not and it took Snyder hiring to understand that Kanter doesn't fit the plan when it was too late to move him for what he is worth.

 

[Stifle Tower]

It's Jazz management fault that after 3 years of Kanter we were not sure if he is worth keeping or not and it took Snyder hiring to understand that Kanter doesn't fit the plan when it was too late to move him for what he is worth.

Umm, I think it was the emergence of Gobert that made jazz management realize Kanter was expendable. And that didn't happen when Gobert was a rookie. Lindsey has said several times Gobert developed much faster than anyone had anticipated. Had Gobert followed the normal developmental curve, Kanter would not have been disgruntled. Sure, he had some hard feelings about Corbin. But he would have been starting, playing 35 mins like Favors with Gobert coming off the bench for 13, just as Enes did when Big Al was the starter.

But Kanter saw the writing on the wall. When he got hurt, Gobert played major minutes and the whole nature of the team changed. Yes, it would have been nice to have a crystal ball at the trade deadline in 2014 so Kanter could have been dealt for more. But really, it wasn't until the World Cup when Gobert emerged. I guess the Jazz mistakenly hoped they could juggle the three to have an amazing rotation of bigs. That's what they're trying to do now in OKC. Adams goes from starter to sub. Will he be happy? Probably not. So they likely lose him once his rookie deal is up (or match an offer and blow through the cap).

 

[Hitman]

Care to give an example of a player traded for late first rounder and scraps who gets max money same season?
Because obviously the Jazz can't be the first team to end up with an RFA who about to get max which they aren't prepared to match.

What did the Thunder get for James Harden?

 

[enchilada_style]

The saga continues

 

[Nate505]

Yes. Utah mismanaged and misused Kanter.

Did they teach him how to become one of the most worthless defenders ever in the modern NBA era, or did he just learn that one on his own.

 

[tleikheen]

At OKC, he is allowed to just hang around the basket, no other responsibilities.

This is F**kin stupid ..........and I guess they just put 19ppg/11 rebs behind your name after games ,I guess the opposing NBA centers just let him do that because their nice guys .......out of everyone here you sound the most bitter like your wife left you for another ___,even before Kanter wanted out most everyone thought Kanter was going to put up big pts and rebounds ...til Gobert emerged ...Gobert surprised everybody