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Extra Insight: Donovan's Power Move Destroyed the Lockeroom

MT Steve said:
Do you have a source for this?
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In the same press conference where it was announced that Mike Elliot was let go for personal reasons, Justin Zanek made the declaration that the team, management and *trainer staff* was 100% vaccinated (note that Mike's replacement had not yet been hired so him leaving was very noteworthy) and it was the only team in the league to achieve it (who would be impressed by this personal health status that was currently in the office; maybe a message to players before training camp started?). Zanek also said strongly that Mike Elliot was not let go due to the controversy around Donovan's ankle during the playoffs.
 
whatthe said:
In the same press conference where it was announced that Mike Elliot was let go for personal reasons, Justin Zanek made the declaration that the team, management and *trainer staff* was 100% vaccinated (not Mike's replacement had it been hired yet so him leaving was very noteworthy) and it was the only team in the league to achieve it (who would be impressed by this personal health status that was currently in the office; maybe a message to players before training camp started?). Zanek also said strongly that Mike Elliot was not let go due to the controversy around Donovan's ankle during the playoffs.
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It seems rather disingenuous to use Zanik's statement about Mitchell as supporting evidence for your theory when his exact quote in the press conference was:

“Mike decided he wanted to pursue some other opportunities. This season was a grind for everyone. I don’t want to speak for him about what those personal things were. But our job here with the Jazz is to continue to put a world-class health care and performance program in place for our players.”
 
whatthe said:
In the same press conference where it was announced that Mike Elliot was let go for personal reasons, Justin Zanek made the declaration that the team, management and *trainer staff* was 100% vaccinated (note that Mike's replacement had not yet been hired so him leaving was very noteworthy) and it was the only team in the league to achieve it (who would be impressed by this personal health status that was currently in the office; maybe a message to players before training camp started?). Zanek also said strongly that Mike Elliot was not let go due to the controversy around Donovan's ankle during the playoffs.
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This ultimately was the policy from Ryan Smith and he alone has to make the tough calls. It wasn't directly the players so my point is a weak weak accusation but it is a possibility.

And heartache and controversy has happened in many workplaces. It was a hard tough choice. The Utah Jazz was not unique; it was a reflection that happened nearly everywhere to nearly everyone.
 
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MT Steve said:
It seems rather disingenuous to use Zanik's statement about Mitchell as supporting evidence for your theory when his exact quote in the press conference was:

“Mike decided he wanted to pursue some other opportunities. This season was a grind for everyone. I don’t want to speak for him about what those personal things were. But our job here with the Jazz is to continue to put a world-class health care and performance program in place for our players.”
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Please note I didn't say Mitchell. And please supply the other quote about 100% vaccination compliance. I give you a 50% for effort.
 
whatthe said:
This ultimately was the policy from Ryan Smith and he alone has to make the tough calls. It wasn't directly the players so my point is a weak weak accusation but it is a possibility.

And heartache and controversy has happened in many workplaces. It was a hard tough choice. The Utah Jazz was not unique; it was a reflection that happened nearly everywhere to nearly everyone.
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It is possible that he was not vaccinated and this was a reason he was let go. But there is no real evidence for that. It is also possible a bunch of other random things are true. But there is no reason to make those assumptions and spread that as factual or even make the rumor.
 
Ron Mexico said:
It is possible that he was not vaccinated and this was a reason he was let go. But there is no real evidence for that. It is also possible a bunch of other random things are true. But there is no reason to make those assumptions and spread that as factual or even make the rumor.
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Likelihood doesn't mean it is factual. But sticking to just facts has not been the standard here. But I will concede that this is such a very fiery accusation that I have also stated that it IS weak and flawed. I agree.

Can we put all topics here under the same standard? I don't strongly care, I am just pointing it out.
 
whatthe said:
Likelihood doesn't mean it is factual. But sticking to just facts has not been the standard here. But I will concede that this is such a very fiery accusation that I have also stated that it IS weak and flawed. I agree.

Can we put all topics here under the same standard? I don't strongly care, I am just pointing it out.
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I agree topics should be under the same standard assuming they are of the same damaging levels to accuse people of. I think they usually are. When people claim something as factual or a likelihood when there is no evidence I think they usually get called out here. Although some get ignored because its the same people saying stuff and its not worth talking to them.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I agree topics should be under the same standard assuming they are of the same damaging levels to accuse people of. I think they usually are. When people claim something as factual or a likelihood when there is no evidence I think they usually get called out here. Although some get ignored because its the same people saying stuff and its not worth talking to them.
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Legally the Jazz would be sued if they got to close to disclose personal information. I didn't pin this on one player or one person except for Ryan Smith. He did say he would let anyone go who was not vaccinated in his organization. That part is a fact.

I did brush up against a general idea that players were uncomfortable. I could go into the nitty gritty of what Joe said and other details. But it leads nowhere and is as murky as hell. So yeah it is garbage. I just want to put the general idea of Ryan Smith pushing something strongly. Did he just do it for the community to be an example? Maybe he does feel this way but...nah, I won't say it..I am done it will just explode so I will leave it. Done.
 
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whatthe said:
Legally the Jazz would be sued if they got to close to disclose personal information. I didn't pin this on one player or one person except for Ryan Smith. He did say he would let anyone go who was not vaccinated in his organization. That part is a fact.
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whatthe said: But I will concede that this is such a very fiery accusation that I have also stated that it IS weak and flawed. I agree.
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Ill leave it at that.
 
It was a weird way to lead with

Hey if you don't get vaccinated then you do have a target on your back. Not surprising.
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And then provide clarifying info after that as if your main point was the coincidence of his departure and the Jazz announcing that they were 100% vaccinated.

It was, let's say, cryptic.
 
Gameface said:
It was a weird way to lead with



And then provide clarifying info after that as if your main point was the coincidence of his departure and the Jazz announcing that they were 100% vaccinated.

It was, let's say, cryptic.
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Done.

However, I would say mass vaccination was a good but flawed and necessary policy. We still have Omicron sub sub variants. Notice that the variants are not broad and wide ranging so it is not from the unvaccinated who have a broader response. It is the vaccinated driving the micro level changes to the Omicron. But .. on the other hand the virus has become more manageable which is good and I am happy about that... But if we look closer that is not a 100% flawless strategy. It is endemic. The antibody titers are holding the virus in the upper respiratory tract so the fatality is low, but...there is a risk that the virus overcomes this target strain of specific non neutralizing antibodies and fatalities "could" climb for the vaccinated. But the good news is that they still have a Tcell response and treatments like Paxlovid are available. Anyway, the goal posts have moved on the final solution for Covid but at least we are generally improving the situation even if is flawed.

And the last point, generally a virus becomes less lethal so that it can survive. But if a virus is present in everyone who is vaccinated due to the non threatening nature of the non neutralizing antibodies. Does it harm the virus if it starts to kill 1% of the population? Don't be shocked to see a virus inflict creative ways to kill if we used a creative way to contain it.
 
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
I was listening to the JJ Redick podcast with Jalen Brunson (great episode btw, Jalen really good dude) and Redick was talking about the importance of the training staff. How basically players became very attached to their training/medical staff people because they are always working with them, getting taped/iced/etc.

When Donovan Mitchell got Mike Elliot fired that probably caused a significant ripple across the day to day personnel on the medical/training staff. When I thought of the negative affects from that I just initially thought about how Donovan caused Joe Ingles to tear his ACL, but now I know he caused that and everyone to be generally pissy because the guys they liked so much got fired by Donovan.

JJ goes onto say that training staffs are one of the most underrated aspect of a good culture.

Donovan really ****ed our whole culture.
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Donovan getting the training staff fired absolutely caused hostilities in the locker room and blew up in Donovan’s face.

Claiming that having to hire a new staff is why Joe Ingles tore his ACL is absolute clown shoes. I could give all the reasons why that’s a really stupid take but it would just be a waste of time.
 
Ron Mexico said:
It is possible that he was not vaccinated and this was a reason he was let go. But there is no real evidence for that. It is also possible a bunch of other random things are true. But there is no reason to make those assumptions and spread that as factual or even make the rumor.
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Andy Larsen has confirmed it was Mitchell who got him fired
 
whatthe said:
Done.

However, I would say mass vaccination was a good but flawed and necessary policy. We still have Omicron sub sub variants. Notice that the variants are not broad and wide ranging so it is not from the unvaccinated who have a broader response. It is the vaccinated driving the micro level changes to the Omicron. But .. on the other hand the virus has become more manageable which is good and I am happy about that... But if we look closer that is not a 100% flawless strategy. It is endemic. The antibody titers are holding the virus in the upper respiratory tract so the fatality is low, but...there is a risk that the virus overcomes this target strain of specific non neutralizing antibodies and fatalities "could" climb for the vaccinated. But the good news is that they still have a Tcell response and treatments like Paxlovid are available. Anyway, the goal posts have moved on the final solution for Covid but at least we are generally improving the situation even if is flawed.

And the last point, generally a virus becomes less lethal so that it can survive. But if a virus is present in everyone who is vaccinated due to the non threatening nature of the non neutralizing antibodies. Does it harm the virus if it starts to kill 1% of the population? Don't be shocked to see a virus inflict creative ways to kill if we used a creative way to contain it.
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Personally I'm excited for monkey pox! Yeah!
 
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