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Extreme vegan facing charges for child abuse

We're already doing a lot to counter these problems. Read up a bit on the poultry watershed problems in Arkansas for example.



No it won't. All that would do is put the smaller farms out of business and leave us with the large factory farms that are the problem. Free range, in theory anyway, disperses their excrement and doesn't create water quality issues.

One of the links in that article you posted (not the original source like most links I read from there) claimed that controlling ammonia would cost about "$8,000 per ton in the winter". That figure is approaching acceptable control technology standard costs.

The USEPA has been making progress in air quality issues. In 2002, they withdrew California's explicit exemption on factory farming. In 2001 they settled an agreement with Premium Standard Farms in Missouri, which forced them to install air pollution control tech, fund a $300,000 environmental project, and spend up to $25,000,000 funding pollution control technology research.

What we all need to realize is this will raise the price of protein and possibly make free range and small farms more competitive. The problem with the latter is it is much more impractical to control emissions from small businesses as it becomes extremely cost prohibitive.
Improvements are happening that are great. They are also necessary because of the growth of that industry. That doesn't mean more doesn't need to be done or that it isn't a problem. I also assume when people cut back on eating animals they would also be more conscience of their source for the meat they buy and get them from sustainable better places.
 
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If everyone switched to vegan it would not be instantaneous. It would be a transition that would not be difficult to manage. The environmental impact would be less. We could sustain the planet just fine with non animal sources of food.

But you also have to become some kind of nutrition scientist to make sure you're getting everything you need. Our bodies just didn't evolve for it. Vegetarianism is a much more reasonable approach than veganism.
 
But you also have to become some kind of nutrition scientist to make sure you're getting everything you need. Our bodies just didn't evolve for it. Vegetarianism is a much more reasonable approach than veganism.
B12 and iron are the only thing vegans struggle with. It's not that difficult. Most vegans are more healthy. I don't necessarily think the answer is vegetarianism or veganism personally. Our bodies haven't evolved to eat what we are eating period, they also haven't evolved for how long we are living. Most people are not properly eating unless they understand nutrition and are paying attention to their diet. So I'm not sure what the difference would be. Vegans generally understand nutrition better then the average person and eat more healthy. Lots of our food needs to be fortified.

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B12 and iron are the only thing vegans struggle with. It's not that difficult. Most vegans are more healthy. I don't necessarily think the answer is vegetarianism or veganism personally. Our bodies haven't evolved to eat what we are eating period, they also haven't evolved for how long we are living. Most people are not properly eating unless they understand nutrition and are paying attention to their diet. So I'm not sure what the difference would be. Vegans generally understand nutrition better then the average person and eat more healthy. Lots of our food needs to be fortified.

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I never said they're the answer. I said one is a more reasonable approach than the other. If you're worried about whatever you're worried about, I think arguing for vegetarianism would work better than arguing for veganism. More people care about an animal not getting killed than one not getting milked. People don't want to have to worry about supplementing this or that, on top of going out of their way to make sure none of their food has ever been sniffed by an animal.

I don't see why our food needs to be fortified. A balanced meal containing meat, vegetables, and grains is enough to give you everything you need. And that's what we pretty much evolved to eat.

And I don't agree with your statement about our lifespan (nor do I understand its relevance). The maximum lifespan has not increased. The mortality rate has improved substantially due to modern medicine and living conditions. But we still live as long as we "evolved" to live.
 
Most vegans are more healthy. Vegans generally understand nutrition better then the average person and eat more healthy.

Again, anecdotal statement without scientific basis. From my personal experience dealing with quite a few vegans it is actually opposite. Most of them miss work more due to sickness, they are usually not athletic, they do not have good sense of humour and a lot of them do not research any scientific data on nutrition or consult nutritionist before committing to veganism. There is a lot of them who eventually go back to vegetarianism or become meat eaters due to variety of health problems they encounter while being vegan. When I ask why they switched - most typical answer is "because I care about animals" ( not because it is healthier)
 
I don't see why our food needs to be fortified. A balanced meal containing meat, vegetables, and grains is enough to give you everything you need. And that's what we pretty much evolved to eat.

I agree mostly, although I do not think we evolved to eat grains. Even know we eat mostly processed grains. Grains became our dietary item only in last 10.000 years or so when people learned how to prepare ( cook, grind, etc) them properly. If you look at cavemen diet I think it is closest diet to what humans evolved to eat. Meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts, eggs, mushrooms, etc. Whatever you can hunt, trap or find and collect.
 
I agree mostly, although I do not think we evolved to eat grains. Even know we eat mostly processed grains. Grains became our dietary item only in last 10.000 years or so when people learned how to prepare ( cook, grind, etc) them properly. If you look at cavemen diet I think it is closest diet to what humans evolved to eat. Meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts, eggs, mushrooms, etc. Whatever you can hunt, trap or find and collect.

That's why I used the qualifier "pretty much". I understand that mass-consumption of grains only began with agriculture. But they do provide good nutrients, and are an easy source of calories. What a balanced meal consists of today is not wildly different than what we ate as hunter-gatherers.
 
Again, anecdotal statement without scientific basis. From my personal experience dealing with quite a few vegans it is actually opposite. Most of them miss work more due to sickness, they are usually not athletic, they do not have good sense of humour and a lot of them do not research any scientific data on nutrition or consult nutritionist before committing to veganism. There is a lot of them who eventually go back to vegetarianism or become meat eaters due to variety of health problems they encounter while being vegan. When I ask why they switched - most typical answer is "because I care about animals" ( not because it is healthier)
Yep all purely anecdotal from both sides. But I definitely know very healthy vegans who are great athletes. I know studies have supported Vegetarian's and vegans being healthy but I don't have any in front of me. If I get interested over the weekend maybe I'll post a couple of them.
 
I never said they're the answer. I said one is a more reasonable approach than the other. If you're worried about whatever you're worried about, I think arguing for vegetarianism would work better than arguing for veganism. More people care about an animal not getting killed than one not getting milked. People don't want to have to worry about supplementing this or that, on top of going out of their way to make sure none of their food has ever been sniffed by an animal.

I don't see why our food needs to be fortified. A balanced meal containing meat, vegetables, and grains is enough to give you everything you need. And that's what we pretty much evolved to eat.

And I don't agree with your statement about our lifespan (nor do I understand its relevance). The maximum lifespan has not increased. The mortality rate has improved substantially due to modern medicine and living conditions. But we still live as long as we "evolved" to live.
The older we get the less we absorb vital nutrients. That's is why we need more food fortified or need to supplement otherwise it would lead to diseases and other health problems, arguably they do even with because people eat poorly. B12 is a good example of that, anyone over 50 needs to be eating foods fortified with it or supplementing. Eating the foods you listed isn't enough due to a few factors one of which is the lower levels of vitamins and minerals in the food we eat. That is why it is fortified back into food. Some of which is fortified in the food itself some of which is fortified into animals diets. Iodine would be lacking in most people's diet especially people not living near the ocean or consuming ocean food. We fortify iodine into the foods animals eat and into our food such as salt. Vitamin D is lacking in most people and needs to be fortified. calcium is fortified a lot although there is debated about wether it should be. There are many other examples of this.
 
Broncster read this interview.... lots of great answers and explanations why vegetarianism will not save the world.

https://matadornetwork.com/bnt/why-vegetarianism-will-not-save-the-world/
I'll read it more thoroughly later but a cursory glance shows lots of criticism of it, a lack of studies and research and a lot of opinion in that article. It looks like attention grabbing on a hot topic. Also I'm not vegan and don't think the world should go vegan. I think we need to adjust how we eat and reducing meat consumption will help the environment and improve most people's diet. Very few people in the USA eat very healthy. The food industry itself is not going to help people change that. Eating vegan is a healthy lifestyle choice that is sustainable for people who choose it. Forcing them to stop and shaming them is what you are irritated that they do.
 
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