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Fidel Castro Has Died.

Gameface said:
Yeah, people need to understand that communism is an economic system, not a political system. China is not even close to being communist. They are probably less socialistic than many European countries.
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Have you ever read Marx?
 
NAOS said:
It's pretty funny/interesting that you have said this much about your exposure Cuba, but have yet to be transparent about the nature and duration of your travels there.

It's starting to remind me of the way my family has spoken about LA. They came here once on a church mission project. They spent 99% of their time on Skid Row. They spent 3 days in the area (hotel accommodations were, of course, in a "much safer area"). Blowhards like my step dad left thinking they had the scoop on LA as a whole. Great stories for the congregation and political allies.

In other words, come clean Hants. This objectivity pose is tiresome/hilarious.
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Government sponsored trip trying to open up more markets for agriculture. It definitely wasn't church related lol.
 
♪alt13 said:
Have you ever read Marx?
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Yes, I read the Communist Manifesto when I was in my mid teens. That was a long time ago.

I get that there has to be a certain type of government to enforce communism because it isn't something that is self-regulating or self-correcting at all. Besides the fact that during implementation people's property is taken from them by force and there are other aspects that require both overt and covert uses of force.

That doesn't change the fact that communism is an economic system and not a political system. And if you talk to many modern advocates of communism they blame the totalitarian regime for the failure of communism in the USSR. They believe that democratic communism is the way to go. I very strongly disagree, but whatever.
 
Gameface said:
Yes, I read the Communist Manifesto when I was in my mid teens. That was a long time ago.

I get that there has to be a certain type of government to enforce communism because it isn't something that is self-regulating or self-correcting at all. Besides the fact that during implementation people's property is taken from them by force and there are other aspects that require both overt and covert uses of force.

That doesn't change the fact that communism is an economic system and not a political system. And if you talk to many modern advocates of communism they blame the totalitarian regime for the failure of communism in the USSR. They believe that democratic communism is the way to go. I very strongly disagree, but whatever.
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I have just a laypersons understanding of the subject. Based on my limited understanding of Marx, and every socialist thinker that I know of, they would say that your insistence that communism is an economic system and not a political system is not only wrong but nonsensical. For Marx the 2 concepts are wholly inseparable. TBH I'm not even sure if Ayn Rand would disagree on this point.

Further if I understand modern advocates of communism, most of them would say that the USSR never was communist. They would say that the USSR never achieved more than state socialism. A despotic and poorly run version of state socialism. Communism is what is supposed to follow state socialism which was only intended to be a system that would aid in the transition from capitalism to communism.
 
♪alt13 said:
I have just a laypersons understanding of the subject. Based on my limited understanding of Marx, and every socialist thinker that I know of, they would say that your insistence that communism is an economic system and not a political system is not only wrong but nonsensical. For Marx the 2 concepts are wholly inseparable. TBH I'm not even sure if Ayn Rand would disagree on this point.

Further if I understand modern advocates of communism, most of them would say that the USSR never was communist. They would say that the USSR never achieved more than state socialism. A despotic and poorly run version of state socialism. Communism is what is supposed to follow state socialism which was only intended to be a system that would aid in the transition from capitalism to communism.
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Most communists/socialists would agree, it's a combo of economic/political system, some form of democracy is implied (council, syndicalist, whatever). It's that transition period between revolution/everyday society that has proven awful tricky(people aren't good at giving up power, who woulda thunk), leading to a bunch of authoritative governments.
 
Castro's legacy is complicated. Coming down on him hard as a "murderer who should rot in hell" is reflective of 50 years of anti-socialist indoctrination along with a side of American exceptionalism
 
dalamon said:
Castro's legacy is complicated. Coming down on him hard as a "murderer who should rot in hell" is reflective of 50 years of anti-socialist indoctrination along with a side of American exceptionalism
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Kind of what I'm thinking after doing a little research. As usual, the little people suffer in the games politicians play.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app
 
dalamon said:
Castro's legacy is complicated. Coming down on him hard as a "murderer who should rot in hell" is reflective of 50 years of anti-socialist indoctrination along with a side of American exceptionalism
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What's complicated about firing squads for dissenters, a personal net worth of ~900m while the people you "love" that stay are often in extreme poverty and many others risk shark infested waters in rafts made of what the duck they can make float? Am I missing something?
 
RJF said:
What's complicated about firing squads for dissenters, a personal net worth of ~900m while the people you "love" that stay are often in extreme poverty and many others risk shark infested waters in rafts made of what the duck they can make float? Am I missing something?
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Yes, you're missing the reason people are fleeing in shark-infested waters for a better life is because of the strangling of their economy by the United States. Cubans arrive on US soil and immediately see all the riches that the US has taken from them and then goes on to gaslight their homeland with propaganda.

Never mind political dissidents who get executed in Cuba, turn your eyes to more rational voices on US soil who the oppressive hand of the US has allowed a voice. Tom Morello supports Castro. He went to Harvard, you know.
 
RJF said:
What's complicated about firing squads for dissenters, a personal net worth of ~900m while the people you "love" that stay are often in extreme poverty and many others risk shark infested waters in rafts made of what the duck they can make float? Am I missing something?
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You ask if you're missing something when you summarize 100 years of Cuban history in a couple short lines, citing only examples that suit your narrative.

--

The answer is *yes* you are missing something.
 
infection said:
Yes, you're missing the reason people are fleeing in shark-infested waters for a better life is because of the strangling of their economy by the United States. Cubans arrive on US soil and immediately see all the riches that the US has taken from them and then goes on to gaslight their homeland with propaganda.

Never mind political dissidents who get executed in Cuba, turn your eyes to more rational voices on US soil who the oppressive hand of the US has allowed a voice. Tom Morello supports Castro. He went to Harvard, you know.
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ah yes, the anti-establishment Trump-voter towing the GOP line with this 60s-repurposed McCarthyism

Trump is truly cucking u all tbh
 
infection said:
Yes, you're missing the reason people are fleeing in shark-infested waters for a better life is because of the strangling of their economy by the United States.
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And all this time I just thought the refurbished 1966 Volkswagen was the preferred vehicle of the average Cuban citizen.
 
candrew said:
And all this time I just thought the refurbished 1966 Volkswagen was the preferred vehicle of the average Cuban citizen.
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Do you believe that's the major reason they're fleeing?

As a side note, I'm actually fairly favorable to changing relations with Cuba and support free trade (disagree with taxes and tariffs and such suggested by Trump). I don't support the unilateral way in which it came about on principle but on the whole I think it will be a positive thing. I'm aware that a lot of Cuban Americans don't feel happy about it.

And, Dal, though you accuse me of 60s McCarthyism, was there anything in my hyperbole that you feel is completely off base?
 
*ducking*


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Eh, he's gone. Whatever.

But now is the time to push what the President started. Build Cuba up. tech for agriculture, medical, energy, automotive, education, communication... Bring them into the 21st century and try to make them allies.

Same with Mexico.
 
May he rot in hell along with all of the other repressive autocrats who have oppressed, jailed, tortured, killed, etc. Cuba is a prison state that is economically stuck in the 1950s-60s. The Cuban people have suffered mightily under this malparido, hijo de ****, and they, and the world, is far better off with him gone.

Don't let the door hit your backside on your descent to hell, chingado.
 
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