Fire Corbin or Keep Him?

[babe]

Uh huh.

& why does D-Will constantly praise Jerry Sloan?

Stop making **** up to support the hate parade hysteria.

group loyalty is always a plus. You say a lot to be part of the all the positive vibes or mutual support. I was one who wanted to give Corbin support when he first had the job. I haven't paid a lot of attention since since, just took a look again the past few games. Athletic ability is the thing most newbs in the NBA have. Predictable performance, learning the plays, and learning to shoot or deliver effectively in the face of the best competition is what managers want. I don't know Corbin's views, or knowledge about his players, but look at the stats. We've got bench warmers with better stats than the starters.

I call that a fundamental management mistake.

 

[franklin]

If none of the four young players are premier players, then we made the wrong picks and trades which speaks to how inept management is then. Either way, management and coaching isn't flawless the way your portray them to be most of the time.

Management is dumb for trading D-Will for Favors and picking Kanter? Go on.

 

[franklin]

Management is dumb for trading D-Will for Favors and picking Kanter? Go on.

Yah yah fire^99 for picking Hayward over Paul George yah yah.

 

[Litany]

Management is dumb for trading D-Will for Favors and picking Kanter? Go on.

You know what my point was and are now trolling.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Who is the last super-star who got drafted?

Possibly Kyrie Irving?

Probably James Harden.

 

[Hartsock]

If none of the four young players are premier players, then we made the wrong picks and trades which speaks to how inept management is then. Either way, management and coaching isn't flawless the way your portray them to be most of the time.

There is a lot wrong with this post.

1. It depends on what your definition of premier is. Is it Lebron? Is it Danny Granger? Is it Tyson Chandler? We have had 0 opportunities to get anyone elite. After Alec Burks was picked the best players are Kawhaii Leonard and Faried. After Kanter there is only Klay Thompson. Would you have taken Thompson at 3? We traded DWill and unless you are a dumb *** you see that that was the right move. Looks like the Jazz have done a pretty good job of drafting and making trades to me.

2. Franklin, Cy and I have all said Corbin has done things we don't agree with, he isn't perfect and no one has said he is. He is also not the anti christ, he isn't keeping the jazz from being contenders, he isn't responsible for all the Jazz's failures.

Don't know what you are expecting out of the FO or Corbin for that matter.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I get what you are saying, but do you really think that the events of last night could cripple Favors relationship with the Jazz to the point where he will want to leave when his contract is up? Don't you think favors will realize that Playing KAnter made sense. That is what i am trying to get across. Won't Favors think, hey, KAnter played really well last night. I understand why Coach Ty didn't get me back in. It was Kanter that led the charge to get us back in the game and plus, it isn't like Coach could just do ththe big lineup, becasue that would mean Sap
would have to guard J.J. Redick....???

You're assuming that Favors (and NBA players in general) thinks about this issue rationally instead of emotionally. I question that assumption. Stoked raised the key issue, it's yet one more in a long series of playing time decisions over two years made by Corbin that have consigned Favors yet again to the bench. What do you think is a more likely scenario--that Favors resents this pattern and is angry/bitter over it, or that he views it in a largely unemotional rational light?

I think also that if you consistently read the threads on this board over the last couple of years you'd find that many of us here (including some of the most vociferous complainers) are willing to accept losses in the short term IF it has a long-term payoff by giving the youngsters vital game experience. Instead, what we're getting is the worst of both worlds--losing AND stunted growth. It's hard not to assign Corbin a lion's share of the blame for this outcome.

As for myself, I really don't care that much about making the playoffs this year. 8th seeds do nothing for me. If had to choose between making the playoffs and continuing as we have the entire year with a vet heavy rotation OR missing the playoffs but giving the youth significant in game experience together, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.

 

[franklin]

group loyalty is always a plus. You say a lot to be part of the all the positive vibes or mutual support. I was one who wanted to give Corbin support when he first had the job. I haven't paid a lot of attention since since, just took a look again the past few games. Athletic ability is the thing most newbs in the NBA have. Predictable performance, learning the plays, and learning to shoot or deliver effectively in the face of the best competition is what managers want. I don't know Corbin's views, or knowledge about his players, but look at the stats. We've got bench warmers with better stats than the starters.

I call that a fundamental management mistake.

I didn't know you read the Jazz forum, C.

You seem guilty of confirmation bias as well. Everyone knew there would be a point where the young guys earned playing time over the vets. Some of us hoped we could get to the end of the season without this being an issue before contracts expire and locker room mutiny isn't an issue. Like you said, group loyalty is always a plus.

 

[franklin]

You're assuming that Favors (and NBA players in general) thinks about this issue rationally instead of emotionally. I question that assumption. Stoked raised the key issue, it's yet one more in a long series of playing time decisions over two years made by Corbin that have consigned Favors yet again to the bench. What do you think is a more likely scenario--that Favors resents this pattern and is angry/bitter over it, or that he views it in a largely unemotional rational light?

I think also that if you consistently read the threads on this board over the last couple of years you'd find that many of us here (including some of the most vociferous complainers) are willing to accept losses in the short term IF it has a long-term payoff by giving the youngsters vital game experience. Instead, what we're getting is the worst of both worlds--losing AND stunted growth. It's hard not to assign Corbin a lion's share of the blame for this outcome.

As for myself, I really don't care that much about making the playoffs this year. 8th seeds do nothing for me. If had to choose between making the playoffs and continuing as we have the entire year with a vet heavy rotation OR missing the playoffs but giving the youth significant in game experience together, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.

You can say this over and over and over again but it won't change the fact that Favors has failed to develop an offensive game in spite of getting 20+ minutes per game. Your beef with Corbin allegedly stunting Favors growth is beyond silly.

Include the other young guys and it gets even worse as Kanter has shown leaps, Hayward has steadily progressed, Carroll does Carroll, and Corbin turned Burks into an NBA bench player

 

[green]

You can say this over and over and over again but it won't change the fact that Favors has failed to develop an offensive game in spite of getting 20+ minutes per game. Your beef with Corbin allegedly stunting Favors growth is beyond silly.

Include the other young guys and it gets even worse as Kanter has shown leaps, Hayward has steadily progressed, Carroll does Carroll, and Corbin turned Burks into an NBA bench player

That's funny. Look at his stats from the Bucks game...it seems Jefferson played anyways.

If we are stuck with a Jefferson-type chucker on offense, I'd rather have the guy that plays defense as well as put up 20 shots for 23 points.

 

[Getting Traded]

You know what my point was and are now trolling.

Durr, these guys don't listen and apparently don't have the brains to comprehend our points, so whatever they say, is worthless. I think the results of the poll speak for themselves. People with common sense, and half a brain, can see that Corbin is not up for the job and is hurting the development of the young guys, and that he needs to either change his methods and pay better attention to his game management, or needs to be shown his walking papers.

 

[fishonjazz]

You can say this over and over and over again but it won't change the fact that Favors has failed to develop an offensive game in spite of getting 20+ minutes per game. Your beef with Corbin allegedly stunting Favors growth is beyond silly.

Include the other young guys and it gets even worse as Kanter has shown leaps, Hayward has steadily progressed, Carroll does Carroll, and Corbin turned Burks into an NBA bench player

Corbin is also responsible for burks great play while at colorado, haywards great play at butler, and kanter kicking but in all his big games when he was 16-19 years old.

None of our guys had any talent before they met corbin, and if it were not for corbin then none of them would even be in the nba.

(sarcasm)

As far as favors failing to develop an offensive game: his 23 pts in 30 minutes against the best shot blocker in the leage says hi

It seems that MOST of the time, when favors gets 30 minutes, he puts up a decent amount of points.

 

[Hartsock]

Corbin is also responsible for burks great play while at colorado, haywards great play at butler, and kanter kicking but in all his big games when he was 16-19 years old.

None of our guys had any talent before they met corbin, and if it were not for corbin then none of them would even be in the nba.

(sarcasm)

As far as favors failing to develop an offensive game: his 23 pts in 30 minutes against the best shot blocker in the leage says hi

It seems that MOST of the time, when favors gets 30 minutes, he puts up a decent amount of points.

There is a difference between having an offensive game and having one of those nights where everything ends up in your lap right under the bucket. He still managed to go 11-20 while shooting almost nothing outside of 3 feet.

 

[Revolution 9]

Favors has improved his outside shot, his post moves, and his free throw shooting since coming here. Yet, obviously he still has a ways to go before he's a "polished offensive player" The truth is he has improved, and will probably continue to get better.

and so what if he gets a lot of points off rebounds, and dunks?
Big Al takes away so much from other players, so what if his offensive game is more "developed".
I'll take a guy that plays better defense, still finds other ways to score, and doesn't completely take other players out of the offense any day of the week.

 

[Hartsock]

Favors has improved his outside shot, his post moves, and his free throw shooting since coming here. Yet, obviously he still has a ways to go before he's a "polished offensive player" The truth is he has improved, and will probably continue to get better.

and so what if he gets a lot of points off rebounds, and dunks?
Big Al takes away so much from other players, so what if his offensive game is more "developed".
I'll take a guy that plays better defense, still finds other ways to score, and doesn't completely take other players out of the offense any day of the week.

I think its great to get points off put backs and dunks. They just aren't things you can count on down the stretch when you have to have a bucket, or at least get a good shot.

 

[fishonjazz]

There is a difference between having an offensive game and having one of those nights where everything ends up in your lap right under the bucket. He still managed to go 11-20 while shooting almost nothing outside of 3 feet.

If i had to guess (and i admit i have nothing to back me up, maybe someone else could find out) I would say favors probably averages between 17-20 pts per game (just like the amazing offense of big al) when he receives 30 or more minutes.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think its great to get points off put backs and dunks. They just aren't things you can count on down the stretch when you have to have a bucket, or at least get a good shot.

Yes it is unfortunate that favors gets alot of easy buckets and gets to the line alot.... hopefully one day he will be hitting that outside jumper on the reg and taking more shots than the amount of points he produces like jeffy..... we can only hope.

 

[Hartsock]

Yes it is unfortunate that favors gets alot of easy buckets and gets to the line alot.... hopefully one day he will be hitting that outside jumper on the reg and taking more shots than the amount of points he produces like jeffy..... we can only hope.

Not what I'm saying, I'm saying at the end of the game you cant call a play for Favors to get a rebound and dunk it back in. You also can't really call a play where he gets the ball and has to do anything. Its very limiting.

 

[fishonjazz]

I get your point though hartsock about not being able to rely on favors for a bucket at the end of games..... that is why you have 4 other guys on the court.

I think you CAN rely on favors to help get stops at the end of games however, maybe stops just are not important to some people though.

 

[Revolution 9]

I think its great to get points off put backs and dunks. They just aren't things you can count on down the stretch when you have to have a bucket, or at least get a good shot.

Well, were we talking about that? First it was he has or has not developed an offensive game, and now it's he shouldn't play down the stretch.
That's another argument altogether, and maybe even slightly more interesting.