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First take on ESPN debate. Better player Stockton or Thomas? Heated debate.

The 1991-1992 season, right before the Olympics, Stockton was, of course, 1st in the league in both assists and steals. Isiah was 13th in assists, and 38th in steals. In both cases, he had less than half of what Stockton did. Isiah had about 150 more points than Stockton, at 1445 to 1297. So, maybe what he said about the peak year (that Isiah was better at his peak) was correct, but that sure as hell wasn't Isiah's peak. Stockton was clearly better than him that year, and by a loooooooooong way. Even when accounting for Karl Malone.
 
Besides that Stockton was better, that team was much better served by having a player who was happy to just facilitate good offense. How would Isiah putting up shots (that should go to better teammates) help the team?

And on the politics of it all, it sucks to suck, I guess. Nobody liked Isiah Thomas cuz he’s a huge piece of ****. Before the Jordan doc, the rumor I heard is that he didn’t make the team because he dragged Magic for having AIDS because he was gay. He had huge beef with the three biggest stars of the 80’s and 90’s that also comprised the leadership of the dream team. It sucks to suck.
 
Man, Thomas is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. The sheen has rightfully worn off a little since the '90s, but the fact that he was selected for that 50 at 50 NBA team over say, Wilkins, is ridiculous. Chris Paul is a better player than him(and as a Jazz fan, you can imagine how much I like Chris Paul), but Chris Paul never got to play with 4 All-Stars in their prime.

Isiah has two rings, sure, but he was lucky his team peaked right before the rise of the Bulls and right after the demise of the Lakers and the Celtics. Having Aguirre, Laimbeer, Rodman, and Dumars sure didn't hurt either. Hell, both backup centres that first year they won the championship(Salley and James Edwards) were better than any centres the Jazz had in the 90s.

Oh, and let me just throw this out. At age 31 and long before he tore his Achilles and had to retire, Isiah managed to lead the Pistons to a 40-42 record and some early fishing(they were two spots out of the playoffs, fwiw) while still having an almost intact core from the championship years. Oh, I know they were in their 30s. They were all younger than Stockton when he played in his first Finals. Every one of them. They were also certainly younger than Stockton was in 2003, when the Jazz made the playoffs.
 
Also, his actual claim to the 1992 Olympic spot is ludicrous in and of itself. The Pistons won 48 games and were knocked out in the first round by the Knicks. The Knicks at this point featuring Pat Ewing and....well, a bunch of role players. Advanced stats suggest that Thomas was the third most important player on his team, behind Rodman and Dumars. You could argue that Rodman was extremely limited offensively and that he doesn't count, but you still have Dumars. He was at that point a better player overall than Thomas. The journalists agreed, and Isiah did not make the All-NBA teams. Here's a dirty little secret. He had not made one since 1987. Remember that starting in 1989, there were 3 All-NBA teams. That means that by the time he was 28, Thomas was not considered a top 15 player in the NBA by those who voted.

Here's who did make it onto those All-NBA teams:

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Now, here is the Dream Team.

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Christian Laettner was there because as Barkley said, someone had to carry the bags. Bird and Magic were there as legacies, so those three spots had different criteria. The other 9 spots all went to the members of All-NBA 1st or 2nd teams. That is completely logical, as the ten best players in the nation should be your Dream Team. I was actually a little surprised how the two lined up exactly. Since it was 9 and not 10 players that were needed after 3 were selected on other grounds, someone was going to lose out. That someone, and I wouldn't have called it before I looked this up, was Tim Hardaway. Hardaway had a really good season and an even better one right before, and the Warriors won 55 games in 1992. He might have been hurt by his age/lack of experience. It was only his third season in the league, and Stockton had him beat there. If they didn't ridiculously select Laettner, Hardaway was probably the best pick, and was a better player at the same position than Thomas in 1992.

If you look at the 3rd team, seems like the voters also though Kevin Johnson and Mark Price were better players than Thomas. Hell, KJ's teammate Hornacek might have had a stronger claim to a spot than Thomas, based on how they played that year. Oh, and look at that. Who else made the 3rd team? That Rodman guy. Maybe the advanced metrics weren't the only "person" who thought Rodman was more important to that Detroit team than Thomas.

Oh, and let's look at one more thing. All-Defensive teams.

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Hilariously for Isiah, both Rodman and Dumars were considered top-5 defenders in the league by the voters. John Stockton is a very nice top-10. Micheal Williams is now largely forgotten, but he was a very solid player on both sides of the ball in the early 90s until injuries completely derailed his career. Oh, and he was also the Pistons 3rd string PG as a rookie when they won their first championship. Williams also had higher box plus/minus and VORP than Thomas in 1992. They were even equal in those categories the year before!

So in conclusion: **** off Isiah! You were maybe a top 10 point guard in the league in 1992. Other than those listed above, the advanced numbers also show Terry Porter, Mark Jackson, and Michael Adams being more impactful, as well as a few others being on a similar level. The only was Thomas could've made that team is as a legacy, and there were already two of those. And in his prime of primes, Thomas was never at the level of Larry or Magic.
 
Lol at the Jazz inferiority and Thomas hate come out. The guy was the best player on a team with two rings. An absolute beast, clutch of a scorer. Argue about who you want was better, Stockton or Isiah, that’s fine. And call him a douche. That’s highly likely. He naturally comes across as sort of smug. But the distances to which people will go to hate one of the best basketball players of all-time are sort of pathetic.
 
Side note - Rip was the better offensive player on the '04 Pistons. Chauncey was probably their 4th best overall player that season after Sheed arrived. Grew to be a lot more, but '04 Chauncey was nothing special.
 
Glorified Chauncey Billups. There's a reason Dumars was FMVP in 1989.

Do you realize how dumb that factoid is? So I guess Iggy is better or as good as Durant, Curry and Thompson since he won a Finals MVP?

Even Jordan says Thomas is the second best point guard of all-time. Get over it. Thomas was a GREAT point guard.
 
Do you realize how dumb that factoid is? So I guess Iggy is better or as good as Durant, Curry and Thompson since he won a Finals MVP?

That's not a factoid. Thomas was a good player on a team that was super stacked. Just like the 2004 Pistons. You replace Thomas with Stockton on that 1989 team and they still win easily.

Again, look at that team. They were stacked. Dumars was a 6-time All-Star and a much better defender than Thomas with similar scoring numbers. He wasn't just given the FVMP. He outscored Thomas by 6 points a game in that series while averaging just one assist fewer. His TS% was better by 10 percentage points, too. The roles would reverse next year, but Dumars was a flat out stud. No, I'm not saying he was better that Thomas overall, but I am saying that Thomas had Dumars. Dumars was 26 at the time.

He also had Aguirre. 3-time All-Star, including his ultimate and penultimate season in Dallas before being traded to Detroit. Easily put up 25+ in Dallas and had a great mid-range game, but could also score around the rim in all kinds of ways. He was 29 during those first Finals.

Laimbeer was top 10 in the league in all manner of advanced defensive statistics, and a 4-time All-Star. He could also get under an opponent's skin like no one else and probably the closest think basketball has seen to a hockey enforcer. 31 at the time.

Rodman was a DPOY in both 1990 and 1991 and whose defensive abilities even in his late 30s we all witness in those Jazz Finals and who was 28 when the Pistons first won it.

They had Vinny Johnson off the bench who was nicknamed Microwave for a reason and whose per-36 numbers put most starting guards to shame. He finished 2nd in Sixth Man of the Year voting once during that time.

Add to that a real supporting cast including Mahorn, Salley, and Edwards(remember, this is when most NBA team's firepower came up front, so you needed guys to handle that) and that's a team that would win the championship with most star guards replacing Thomas. They went 3-0, 4-0, 4-2, 4-0 in 1989.

Build a team like this around top guards in the NBA right now, and yes, they will win titles. Or any top guard from any other point in history. That's not to say Thomas was a scrub, but he was not the second best PG in NBA history, no matter what Jordan says. Bleacher Report had him at #10 not even a year ago, and that's probably generous too. The numbers(advanced or otherwise) probably put him closer to 15.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2852716-nba-all-time-player-rankings-top-10-point-guards
 
Do you realize how dumb that factoid is? So I guess Iggy is better or as good as Durant, Curry and Thompson since he won a Finals MVP?

Even Jordan says Thomas is the second best point guard of all-time. Get over it. Thomas was a GREAT point guard.
Jordan can kiss my bony hairy white as hell ***. Stockton is the king of pg’s ever!! Jordan played Stockton on the down side of his career and still gave Jordan all he could handle. The jazz were the least stacked team the Bulls faced where the three best players were 37+ I’m guessing. I think Stockton probably had 7 at the least seasons as good as Thomas’s best one season. Give Stockton Magic’s showtime Lakers or Thomas’s bad boys or Curry’s W’s, my god the numbers he’d put up in either of those situations. Idiot.
Real talk, Iggy is/was just as good as Klay.
Maybe in his prime. But not his fmvp year! Idiot!!
 
Hell, Thomas isn’t even a better scorer than Stockton. Stockton chose not to score. He did however up his game whenever the jazz needed him to score.
 
Lol sorry some of you are deluded. Peak Thomas was an incredible talent. The dude was clearly the best offensive player and leader on a team that won back to back titles. They got past the Celtics, Lakers and beat back the Bulls on the rise. He’s a douche and at the 1992 stage Stockton was the better choice but thru the 80s he was an amazing player
 
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