JimLes
Well-Known Member
I never said that Thomas wasn't a "great" player, whatever that means. I said he was not as good as Stockton.
First take on ESPN debate. Better player Stockton or Thomas? Heated debate.
- Thread starter Thee Idiotic Minivan K
- Start date
I never said that Thomas wasn't a "great" player, whatever that means. I said he was not as good as Stockton.
See once again you're having a pretend argument with me. I didn't say he couldn't score or wasn't good at it. I wasn't comparing him to Mitchell in that.
I compared him to Malone from a scoring standpoint and ability to take the game over scoring compared to Malone.
Do you think Malone was a better way scoring points or Stockton? If your answer is Malone you agree with me.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I’m telling you now he could take over a game scoring. Look at that game 6 vs Houston in wcf It was Stockton scoring and assisting on every point over the last 6-7 minutes of the comeback win. He’s done this on multiple occasions it wasn’t like that was a one time affair. And in close end of game situations it was always Stockton with the ball and taking the final shot, and would note he was one of the better clutch performers in those moments in the 90’s. Malone was the scorer he was because Stockton got him 8-10 pts as freebies.
So you think Stockton was better at taking over games at scoring than Malone?
I never said Stockton could never take over a game scoring. Again you are having a fun pretend argument with yourself.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Yes better by far
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Malone did his scoring usually during the beginning and middle of the game, starts of quarters and such. But when the jazz needed it most Stockton rose to the occasion
So if Stockton was much better at scoring than why was he so dumb to pass so much?
That might be the dumbest take you've had in awhile. But I'll give a week and you'll pass it up.
Tbf, Stockton had incredibly high efficiency. He could stand to take more shots and still be hella efficient. And his AST/TO are pretty good with how much he handled the ball and passed.
Malone was the better scorer, though.
I don't disagree with that. I think the Jazz would have been better if Stockton tried to score a little more.
As per Stockton vs Thomas
Off the top of my head I prefer Stockton by a lot. I think as far as career numbers go Stockton is ahead and he isnt touchable because of how long he played at a high level. Thomas does have the rings that helps his career though and was a big part of them winning but those were good teams around him.
Stockton did play next to arguably the best PF of all time but the rest of his roster is not so good. Stockton particularly was on the decline by a decent amount when the Jazz went to the finals. His peak years were wasted on a team choking in the playoffs. Jazz lost so many times to teams they were better than, had a better record, and predicted to win against. You can complain the Jazz just ran up against the Jordan and thats why they did win it all but the reality is they had a huge window they didnt take advantage of. After Jordans first retirement where were the Jazz? Stockton and Malone had really long good careers they should have done more in the playoffs. But their best teams were the years against Jordan. Malone was playing at a really really high level at that time.
As far as their best season goes its close. 84/85 Thomas put up 21 points and 14 assists. Stocktons best year he put up 16.6 points and 14 assists, but was much more efficient. They were both good defenders. I would generally say Stocktons peak was slightly better but its close and it only hurts stockton that he didnt do more in his peak years because I think he could have and should have. He held the team back a little bit by not scoring more and being more aggressive those years. Advanced stats prefer Stockton as well.
Overall I think Stockton is a better player especially for their careers and would choose him in most situations. But it is close and Thomas was a really good player. Its hard because Thomas has been kind of a ****** person outside of basketball and has been poison to everything basketball related after he stopped playing.
Off the top of my head I prefer Stockton by a lot. I think as far as career numbers go Stockton is ahead and he isnt touchable because of how long he played at a high level. Thomas does have the rings that helps his career though and was a big part of them winning but those were good teams around him.
Stockton did play next to arguably the best PF of all time but the rest of his roster is not so good. Stockton particularly was on the decline by a decent amount when the Jazz went to the finals. His peak years were wasted on a team choking in the playoffs. Jazz lost so many times to teams they were better than, had a better record, and predicted to win against. You can complain the Jazz just ran up against the Jordan and thats why they did win it all but the reality is they had a huge window they didnt take advantage of. After Jordans first retirement where were the Jazz? Stockton and Malone had really long good careers they should have done more in the playoffs. But their best teams were the years against Jordan. Malone was playing at a really really high level at that time.
As far as their best season goes its close. 84/85 Thomas put up 21 points and 14 assists. Stocktons best year he put up 16.6 points and 14 assists, but was much more efficient. They were both good defenders. I would generally say Stocktons peak was slightly better but its close and it only hurts stockton that he didnt do more in his peak years because I think he could have and should have. He held the team back a little bit by not scoring more and being more aggressive those years. Advanced stats prefer Stockton as well.
Overall I think Stockton is a better player especially for their careers and would choose him in most situations. But it is close and Thomas was a really good player. Its hard because Thomas has been kind of a ****** person outside of basketball and has been poison to everything basketball related after he stopped playing.
We are so bored.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
You fake idiot, you made your peace last year now you need to lie in it, idiot!!
I did! It's the same at now. But you've proven you don't know what I said and have made up a pretend argument. Also lots of what I posted made you upset before when I said it last time...
But your stance is beyond terrible. You think Stockton was better at scoring and taking over games scoring than Malone. You think Stockton was easily the best pg and it's not close. You think Stockton is a top 10 best players ever in the NBA.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
who always took the last shot and had the ball. Coach Jerry Sloan clearly had more trust and faith in Stockton than Malone.
Your a big stats and numbers guy, those alone tell how great he was, and stacked on how great his yearly stats were, he never missed games and put up ungodly numbers year after year. For example. The two MVP years for Nash... Stockton for a 7-8 year period averaged greater numbers for 7 ****ing years. That’s almost unheard of and ridiculous to think about.
then there’s the fact that you only look at stats, that’s all you seem to know, and still you don’t give Stockton the credit he deserves because you don’t understand the makeup of his game because you never watched him play. Or you just hate him.
I'd take Stockton pretty clearly for career, peak/prime I think it's a pretty interesting discussion though I'd still lean Stockton. Probably competing somewhere in the back of the top 10 PG primes? I'd take Curry, Magic, Oscar, CP3 pretty clearly over either. Westbrook/Nash probably too, though closer. West if you count him as a PG (I do). Kidd/Frazier/Payton/Dame on the same level as Stock/Zeke.
So I guess somewhere from 8-13 for primes?
No clue on Cousy.
So I guess somewhere from 8-13 for primes?
No clue on Cousy.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
WTF is wrong with you.
Haven't huffed as much paint as most of the board.
I like stats, I also like the eye test, expert opinions, and my own opinion. You seem to just go by your childhood feelings.
But its hard talking to a guy called Thee jazz fan who hates our best Jazz player Malone and thinks he wasn't very good about this stuff.
Why are you such a Malone hater?
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Way to try and deflect, I won’t let you, I won’t dignify this with an answer