Flat Tax and Tithing

[Stoked]

This is an idea I like. I'm not expert enough to say it's a good, workable idea, but I like the notion none the less.

I see the justification being that each financial transaction represents a contract of sorts (or may be accompanied by an actual contract) and the tax on that transaction is the price paid to have that contract enforced by law and everything that entails.

I would be very interested to see how they define the word transaction.

For example: Is a private citizen moving $250 from their checking act. to their savings act. a transaction?

 

[PearlWatson]

A financial transactions tax might be the best alternative.

There would be a run on the banks and mattresses would get thicker.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I suggested that they should report it as income. Colton is the one who wants them to pay taxes on their income if they are poor, not me. IF they are poor, then they won't owe taxes on the income. You are assuming that all people who receive help from the church are poor. This may not be the case. From your description. it actually sounds like an area with great potential for people who are not poor to avoid paying taxes, by washing their income through a nonprofit.

So do we also do away with the $10,000 gift allowance? seems like that would be unfair to leave that exclusion in place if we're taxing goods received through a charitable organization. Perhaps immediate family only is excluded? Otherwise, your children would need to report as income any money you give him/her to pay rent, tuition, buy food, etc. while at college.

 

[MoreFeasts]

No C4, I am not advocating changing current rules on taxing familial gifts. For a variety of reasons, I don't see them as equivalent to charity or government assistance.

I would advocate lower deductibles on estate taxes though.

Stoked, no , my proposal is not to go after checking accounts, certainly not the sort of transaction you described. I am thinking more about things like high frequency trading and derivatives trading and to find other methods of deriving tax revenue from wealth and the transfer of wealth. The goal would be to do away with taxes on earnings, and relieve most Americans from the burden of doing tax returns. I haven't worked out all the details.

 

[PearlWatson]

The goal would be to do away with taxes on earnings, and relieve most Americans from the burden of doing tax returns. I haven't worked out all the details.

H & R Block is going to love your proposal when it is all done.

 

[One Brow]

Only as it's relevant to our tax dollars. If Exxon wants to waste its own dollars that's entirely up to them and their shareholdrs. This is about government taxation/spending.

Exxon gets our tax dollars, though. They sell the government gasoline, get the usual tax credits, etc.

I'm just pointing out this focus on government waste is a cultural meme.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Exxon gets our tax dollars, though. They sell the government gasoline, get the usual tax credits, etc.

I'm just pointing out this focus on government waste is a cultural meme.

What? Are you seriously suggesting that focusing on reducing waste and inefficiencies is a waste of time?

 

[One Brow]

I would be very interested to see how they define the word transaction.

For example: Is a private citizen moving $250 from their checking act. to their savings act. a transaction?

I would expect at the very lest, a transaction would involve the exchange of property between two individuals.

So, transferring of resources, loans (on security or otherwise), etc. would not be taxable. Transferring ownership of a mortgage, derivatives, insurance (including credit default swaps), stock purchases, bond purchases, etc. would be taxable.

 

[One Brow]

What? Are you seriously suggesting that focusing on reducing waste and inefficiencies is a waste of time?

No, I specifically said the opposite yesterday. If there was one particular trend I would be fighting against regarding this meme, it would be the notion that private industries do things more effectively and efficiently than government.

 

[Stoked]

No, I specifically said the opposite yesterday. If there was one particular trend I would be fighting against regarding this meme, it would be the notion that private industries do things more effectively and efficiently than government.

The problem I have with that is that there is one government and a plethora of private industries. I am sure that you can find many, many examples of of private industries that are more effective and efficient than government. I am sure the reverse is true.

Either way pointing to the success or failure of others should have no bearing on being mad about government waste.

 

[Dr. Jones]

No, I specifically said the opposite yesterday. If there was one particular trend I would be fighting against regarding this meme, it would be the notion that private industries do things more effectively and efficiently than government.

Here's the problem(s). First, I truly believe you are wrong. Yes, every company has inefficiencies.. but I believe that if you looked at any blue-chip company and compared it to the U.S. government the inefficiencies are nowhere close to similar.. again, I've given real world example of the waste in government.
Secondly, there is a big difference (at least as far as I am concerned) with the government wasting MY money rather than a corporation wasting its money.

Question: You have $1MM to invest and you must invest into the stock of one of two companies. The first one is profitable and clearly run well and efficiently. The second is not. Which do you invest in? How do you feel when you're told you HAVE to invest your hard-earned money into the second option? Of course those are rhetorical questions.

My thing is I get investing into America. Into education, R&D, infrastructure, the poor, military.. it's a necessary investment to make and one I fully support (the alternative would be stupid, no?). I just want my money being invested into a smart company/government. Will that day ever come? Extremely doubtful. Politicians will still fight over the raising or lowering of taxes .. and I'll still be bitching about waste.

 

[Gameface]

No, I specifically said the opposite yesterday. If there was one particular trend I would be fighting against regarding this meme, it would be the notion that private industries do things more effectively and efficiently than government.

Those companies do not force us to hand over our money under threat of imprisonment. They can be however wasteful they want with their own money. If they're not efficient enough they'll go out of business and be replaced by a company that doesn't waste as much.