orangello
Well-Known Member
So much this.
Following 2016 potential draftees
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
- Start date
So much this.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
Hayward and Hood improved. We agree on that.
Because both are good enough for their position - 6'8" SF/SG - then one of them is superfluous. Trade the one that is perceived as more valuable (Hayward) who is also less of a good deal (Hayward).
The reason the talk of #1, #2, and #3 is annoying to you is because you're on the wrong side of it. We're talking about stars. #2s aren't stars.
"Trade Hayward because you are only allowed to have 1 good player at the position where depth is the most important in today's NBA"
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
The jazz have lots of "good" players. They need an elite player. An alpha. A #1. I'm trying to find a term that you will understand.
High quality depth. Have you been watching the Finals?
If anyone actually proposed a trade where Hayward gets traded for a super-star, cool.
If we are proposing a trade of Haywrd for Jamal Murray on the basis that some idiots think Jamal Murray is a super-star, then lulz.
If we are proposing a trade of Haywrd for Jamal Murray on the basis that some idiots think Jamal Murray is a super-star, then lulz.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
MVP Curry vs. Future hall of famer Lebron.
Yes, both of those teams are deep. But they also have superstars.
Cavs aren't deep, they have Shumpert, Delavadova, and Richard Jefferson as their bench unit. They are the super-star driven team. They have 3 guys who, at least when they where brought together, where all considered a top 5 player at their position (at least).
The Warriors are a deep team who have former lottery picks coming off the bench. They are also the team that built their team through the draft and with patience. The Jazz need to be looking for the deal that lands us our Igoudala, not trying to trade away our best player for future assets or a rookie who has no chance of being as good as Hayward.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
And they have depth why? Because they have a superstar making 11 million a year.
Yeah, they lucked out. So let's stop trying to luck out into ridiculous outcomes by trading away our best players and let them develop? You never know, maybe someone takes an unforeseen exponential leap like Curry/Green did.
Man after reading some of these posts I would have thought the Jazz won 9 games this past year.Many fans want to trade our whole team. Hayward, Hood, Favors, Exum, Burks and maybe Rudy have been mention in a trade in this thread. I hate to say it but King Cy is looking like the voice of reason in this thread. 
There has been no indication that Hayward wants to leave nor have the Jazz or Hayward even talked about his next contract. Yet people are trying to trade him for the #3 pick in a bad draft. I love Murray but he is not better than Hayward. He may be a better offensive player in the future but all round he has a long way to go to be as well rounded as Hayward.
I agree with Cy, #1, #2 etc, who cares? Jazz need more depth/talent on the bench, they don't need to trade away known talent to swing at potential talent. They need to draft BPA, preferable a player who can provide scoring off the bench and some defense. They need to go after a difference maker in FA and then get everyone healthy.
There has been no indication that Hayward wants to leave nor have the Jazz or Hayward even talked about his next contract. Yet people are trying to trade him for the #3 pick in a bad draft. I love Murray but he is not better than Hayward. He may be a better offensive player in the future but all round he has a long way to go to be as well rounded as Hayward.
I agree with Cy, #1, #2 etc, who cares? Jazz need more depth/talent on the bench, they don't need to trade away known talent to swing at potential talent. They need to draft BPA, preferable a player who can provide scoring off the bench and some defense. They need to go after a difference maker in FA and then get everyone healthy.
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Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
Great idea except that free agency is after the draft so there is no way to know if the jazz are going to get ddr.
I like the idea of trading to get murray. He has the chance to be very good. Possibly great with his attitude. I am just not sure hayward is my guy to trade.
I do like the addition of ddr if we use hood to trade for murray.
It looks like the formula for winning can go several different ways:
1) Get 2 or 3 superstars
2) Have 2-Deep starter depth at every position
3) Build continuity with the #1 and #2 - have people play together for a while so they know how to play as a team
The Jazz don't have any superstars so one approach is to blow things up and try to get some. This isn't easy to do.
The Jazz don't have starter depth at every position.
Point guard has one potential starter with Exum. Not sure Mack is a viable NBA starter
Shooting Guard has Hood and Burks, both with potential to be NBA starters, but both injury prone. Could still use insurance here. Hayward can also play the 2.
Small Forward: Hayward is a legit starter. No other legit starter depth
Power Forward: Favors is starter caliber, Lyles is potential starter depth.
Center: Gobert is starter caliber. No other players are.
So the Jazz has several holes to fill if they want to be 2-deep at every position. And this draft has some intriguing players who might be able to fit: J Murray, Dunn, D Murray, and Baldwin at point (would need to trade up for a shot at the first. Wings: Most of the intriguing wings are SG and not SF unfortunately. But Korkmaz, Valentine, Beasley, Richardson, Bembry and others could be intriguing. Power Forward: Chriss, Ellenson, and others. Some risky ones with Labrissiere and Maker. Center: Poeltl and Sabonis.
So I think there is a pretty good shot that the Jazz can add depth in this draft. Or maybe they trade for a more experienced starter. Probably not going to trade for a superstar and probably not going to find one in this draft.
1) Get 2 or 3 superstars
2) Have 2-Deep starter depth at every position
3) Build continuity with the #1 and #2 - have people play together for a while so they know how to play as a team
The Jazz don't have any superstars so one approach is to blow things up and try to get some. This isn't easy to do.
The Jazz don't have starter depth at every position.
Point guard has one potential starter with Exum. Not sure Mack is a viable NBA starter
Shooting Guard has Hood and Burks, both with potential to be NBA starters, but both injury prone. Could still use insurance here. Hayward can also play the 2.
Small Forward: Hayward is a legit starter. No other legit starter depth
Power Forward: Favors is starter caliber, Lyles is potential starter depth.
Center: Gobert is starter caliber. No other players are.
So the Jazz has several holes to fill if they want to be 2-deep at every position. And this draft has some intriguing players who might be able to fit: J Murray, Dunn, D Murray, and Baldwin at point (would need to trade up for a shot at the first. Wings: Most of the intriguing wings are SG and not SF unfortunately. But Korkmaz, Valentine, Beasley, Richardson, Bembry and others could be intriguing. Power Forward: Chriss, Ellenson, and others. Some risky ones with Labrissiere and Maker. Center: Poeltl and Sabonis.
So I think there is a pretty good shot that the Jazz can add depth in this draft. Or maybe they trade for a more experienced starter. Probably not going to trade for a superstar and probably not going to find one in this draft.
Quality depth = Atlanta, Boston
Superstars + Quality Depth = GSW, OKC, SAS
Superstars + Quality Depth = GSW, OKC, SAS
Agreed: And those last three also have continuity with several core players.
I really dont feel like GSW has multiple super-stars though. I think they have 1, then 2 All-Stars. I just question the impact Klay or Green would have without Curry. If Thompson was in Hayward's role I know for a fact he would look much worse than Hayward. I dont think Hayward would be as good as Klay in Klay's role, but he would be better than Klay doing what Hayward does.
By definition, I think super-star should be top 10 player. I don't think Thompson or Green are top 10 players (or perceived) at any point in their career. Love and Irving might have been considered top 10 players before they joined Lebron.