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Following potential 2012 draftees

As far as BJ Young goes, if we're to make a judgment as to who he will be by his freshman season, calling him a "Point Guard" is a hell of a stretch. 1:1 ast/TO ratio, 2.3 apg.

Really impressive scoring numbers though (in terms of efficiency and age).
 
As far as BJ Young goes, if we're to make a judgment as to who he will be by his freshman season, calling him a "Point Guard" is a hell of a stretch. 1:1 ast/TO ratio, 2.3 apg.

Really impressive scoring numbers though (in terms of efficiency and age).

I think we need a scoring PG, and let the offense roll through Gordon. How many PG's really are pass first though? Nash, Tinsley, ... I've been at work all day, my brain is ****ed, who else is there?
 
I think we need a scoring PG, and let the offense roll through Gordon. How many PG's really are pass first though? Nash, Tinsley, ... I've been at work all day, my brain is ****ed, who else is there?
Chris Paul, Jose Calderon, Rajon Rondo, Ricky Rubio (!!!), Deron Williams on a good team...

Hayward is a nice secondary ball-handler, but I think the advantage is largely negated if he's scouted and gameplanned as the primary ball handler. And as to this notion that the Jazz should have no clear-cut primary ball-handler/no point guard, there isn't really a precedent for that, and there's probably a reason.
 
That game came up a red flag. It's the only game I've ever seen him play, also the biggest game in his career. When the game got close again Lillard seemed to shrink in the biggest moment. I don't know if he has a history of wilting in big moments, but that's what I saw in that game. Didn't mean to sound wishy washy in my other posts.

Reminded me of when LeBron deferred in the final seconds vs. The jazz.

I just want to point one thing out. Weber played Montana for the third time in the final. Montana seemed to be a team that had his number.

I was also very concerned with that game but even DWill had his team that seemed to be his kryptonite.
 
Chris Paul, Jose Calderon, Rajon Rondo, Ricky Rubio (!!!), Deron Williams on a good team...

Hayward is a nice secondary ball-handler, but I think the advantage is largely negated if he's scouted and gameplanned as the primary ball handler. And as to this notion that the Jazz should have no clear-cut primary ball-handler/no point guard, there isn't really a precedent for that, and there's probably a reason.

Ya you are probably right, my brain hurts right now .... I still think shooting takes precedence over distributing right now. I am not super high on Marshall, although I loved watching him play I just think his deficiencies in all other areas of the game other than passing will be problematic.
 
Ya you are probably right, my brain hurts right now .... I still think shooting takes precedence over distributing right now. I am not super high on Marshall, although I loved watching him play I just think his deficiencies in all other areas of the game other than passing will be problematic.

There are some significant weaknesses for sure. And finding options that spread the floor really is of paramount importance if the Jazz want to maximize their effectiveness of dominating the paint. Ball-distribution is a weakness, too, and I think Marshall can be a good shooter (if there's one thing he did reasonably well as a scorer this season, it was spot-up shooting). His form is good and his mechanics are good enough to improve upon. If Jason Kidd can learn to shoot in his mid-30's, then Marshall can learn to grow that skill at 20 (especially since he's not going to be a great threat to get to the rim and doesn't have to with that already being a strength for the Jazz).

I like both players, though.
 
BTW, DX just put up a new article about Marshall. It's a good read as usual.

NBA Draft Prospect of the Week: Kendall Marshall
March 30, 2012
Joseph Treutlein

After a solid freshman year where his performance really came on strong late in the season, Kendall Marshall picked up right where he left off as a sophomore, playing a pivotal role in leading North Carolina to a #1 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

Unfortunately for Marshall, his season was unexpectedly cut short following a superb 18 point, 11 assist performance in a Round of 32 win over Creighton, as he broke a bone in his wrist late in the game and was unable to return before the Tar Heels' own season ended two games later in the Elite Eight.

Marshall had a superb season in Chapel Hill by many standards, which can be evidenced by looking at his statistical accomplishments in relation to the rest of our database. It's no secret that Marshall's game centers heavily around his fantastic abilities passing the ball, which look even more impressive when you view them in a historical context.

Marshall's 10.7 assists per 40 minutes game adjusted this season rank the highest of any player in the history of our database (which goes back to 2001/2002). He's also #1 all-time in Pure Point Ratio by a large margin, while his 3.51 Assist-Turnover Ratio ranks 3rd all-time.

When looking at Marshall's game from an NBA perspective, his passing ability is clearly his greatest selling point, and it's hard to overstate how good of a passer he is and how great a feel he has for managing a game.

In terms of point guard style, Marshall is a prototypical pass-first point guard taken to the extreme, as evidenced by his just 6.2 field-goal attempts per game in 32.9 minutes. He possesses an uncanny, second nature feel for the game, always instinctively playing with his head up and quickly moving the ball to the highest percentage scoring opportunity. Managing the game clearly comes very easy for him both in the half court and transition, as he looks as natural as any player in the country finding teammates for easy baskets.

Marshall possesses the full slate of passing skills, possessing excellent vision and the ability and willingness to make all types of passes, excelling especially in transition, on pick-and-rolls, and finding open shooters all over the floor. He does a great job reading the floor and finding openings, while being quick to get the ball out of his hands as soon as an opportunity develops, not being as ball dominant a player as one would expect given his gaudy assist numbers.

Marshall only averages 3.1 turnovers per-40 pace adjusted, but that number is slightly misleading due to how little he looks for his own offense, which cuts down the opportunities for turnovers in that area of his game relative to other players. Just accounting for possessions used, Marshall was the third most turnover prone prospect in our database this season, coughing the ball up on 27% of his possessions.

As he readily admits, he is prone to taking too many risks with his passing game at times, trying to make homerun plays or leaving his feet before he makes a decision and relying on his vision to bail him out, which leads to some unnecessary turnovers. While this is something a coach will need to live with considering how brilliant of a distributer he is, this is something he'll need to account for in the NBA where every defender will be bigger and more athletic, lowering the margin for error on all passing windows.

While Marshall clearly cemented his status as an excellent distributor in his breakout sophomore season, many of the same questions remain in his rarely utilized scoring game, as his pace-adjusted efficiency and production numbers stayed pretty stable this year.

Marshall's 7.9 points per 40 minutes pace adjusted ranks second worst of all players projected to be drafted this season, and his 55% True Shooting Percentage is towards the bottom as well. While Marshall improved his scoring output all season long (nearly doubling his scoring rate in March), and looked extremely aggressive in a few extremely high-profile matchups, he still has many concerns heading to the next level, namely whether he'll be willing and able to score enough to keep an opposing defense honest.

The most encouraging improvement for Marshall is the increase of his anemic 43.4% FG% on two-point baskets this season to a more respectable 50.7%, but he's still doing it on just 4.0 attempts per game and is also getting to the free-throw line at a slightly lower rate. Marshall has done a better job being decisive going to the rim, taking advantage of gaps in the defense when they present themselves and using his size to finish around the rim, but still is not very impressive in this area.

Marshall's first step is below average and despite excellent craftiness and a good ability to change speeds, he lacks the top gears most NBA guards have, which often prevents him from getting to the second level on drives. His lack of elevation around the rim is also concerning projecting forward, so developing a floater would be wise for diversifying his scoring ability in the lane.

As a shooter, Marshall has similarly remained mostly stagnant with his development as a sophomore, as he's shooting a respectable 71.2% from the free-throw line, and 35.1% from three-point range, but doing so on a very low 2.2 attempts per game. The bright side here is his 1.35 points per shot on unguarded catch-and-shoot jump shots according to Synergy Sports Technology is a more impressive number, and that bodes well for his chances of expanding this area of his game projecting to the next level, where he could play in the same backcourt with another playmaking combo guard (perhaps a Monta Ellis type). Marshall's shooting success is still in spite of his somewhat awkward albeit passable mechanics, which shows more potential for improvement if he can refine his motion some.

The defensive end, however, is perhaps the most concerning aspect of Marshall's game projecting to the next level, as his lack of quickness on this end of the floor is concerning in the dribble-drive centric NBA, and already is a problem against high level competition in college. While Marshall brings a good effort and fundamental level to the table at the college level, he is prone to being blown by more athletic competition due to his below average lateral quickness, and often has to give up notable space on the perimeter to compensate. His excellent size allows him to offset his other limitations somewhat, notably in the pick-and-roll game at times, but overall his ability to defend point guards consistently is a question mark projecting to the NBA, and he will really need to put in work to maximize his effectiveness on this end of the floor.

Looking forward, Marshall's superb passing ability, feel for the game, excellent intangibles, and penchant for playing winning basketball are certain to be attractive to NBA teams, as there simply aren't many players who can run a team like him available, certainly not in this point guard-starved draft class. The recent seamless transition of Ricky Rubio, a player with a similar strength/weakness profile in many ways, will also help the case for those wondering how Marshall's game could translate to the pros, as will the continued success of Andre Miller, another guard he somewhat resembles.

Maximizing his spot-up shooting and defensive abilities are definitely the simplest short-term and long-term improvements Marshall can make, and both would go a long way to easing his transition and rounding out his game. Playing in an unselfish offensive system under a coach that recognizes how to utilize his skills will be critical for Marshall's long-term success, but it's difficult to see a player with such a pronounced and coveted strength not finding a niche in the NBA.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kendall-Marshall-5095/
 
Not saying we should draft BJ Young. He hasn't gotten an agent yet, so he may just be testing the waters to see if his name garners any interest. He would be an interesting pick out of the lottery because he has lottery level talent. He came off the bench for Arkansas, who have a pretty uptempo team. He would be combo/scoring point, but he seems to be a pretty good one. Just keeping our options open. This draft now has a lot of PG depth. Marshall, Lillard, Rivers, and Young all have a lot of potential at the position.
 
That DX - Marshall article is pretty much what we've been saying for a year now. Just solidifies it all.
 
In the debate of Lillard v. Marshall:

There is only one ball. If all of The Four become significant contributors as scorers (say, each averages at least 10 ppg, and average 50-60 ppg between them, and not even counting Millsap and/or Jefferson if applicable), having another guy that is going to use more possessions for himself and not be as good of a passer doesn't seem like the way to go. I think on most teams Lillard is the better choice, but with the breadth that the Jazz might have, Marshall might be the piece that makes everything work.

The only thing I'm still having a really tough time with in regards to Marshall is his inability to defend and his lack of length (same wingspan as height).

Marshall's job would be primarily to turn Favors and Kanter into near-20 point scorers. Hitting those guys at the right time in the post is going to be critical. Everyone said Malone benefitted from having Stockton to get him the ball. Marshall is that caliber of passer. Now that we're already betting the farm on those frontcourt players, having a "pure" PG makes a lot of sense.
 
Marshall's job would be primarily to turn Favors and Kanter into near-20 point scorers. Hitting those guys at the right time in the post is going to be critical. Everyone said Malone benefitted from having Stockton to get him the ball. Marshall is that caliber of passer. Now that we're already betting the farm on those frontcourt players, having a "pure" PG makes a lot of sense.

I agree. I am still, however, concerned about his defensive ability ... and whether the passing lanes are as open when the length of the NBA is sagging off ... I still like him a lot, though.
 
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We've already talked about it at length, but the other thing missing from the Jazz is a physical athlete on the wing, someone who can defend aggressively and finish aggressively. A Jae Crowder type would let Hayward and Burks play on the perimeter. I think Crowder can end up being an adequate shooter, like Bryon Russel was.
 
We've already talked about it at length, but the other thing missing from the Jazz is a physical athlete on the wing, someone who can defend aggressively and finish aggressively. A Jae Crowder type would let Hayward and Burks play on the perimeter. I think Crowder can end up being an adequate shooter, like Bryon Russel was.

From what I've heard, most people think he can't play the 3 in the NBA.
Right? Wrong?
 
PKM, you have any thoughts on BJ Young?

When I watched him in HS (he was recruited by UK for a bit) I thought he was a pure SG. Obviously he knows he needs to be a PG .. of some variety. I haven't seen enough of him, personally, and haven't heard much talk about him, either. I'd like to see more burn before feeling me opinion had any value whatsoever. The time I have seen him play this year, he was dynamic and fun, but not a point. FWIW, I'd take him, right now, before Wroten .. who's being projected late 1st (though I think that's too high).
 
DX sees him as a 3. Their site isn't scripture, but it's probably the best free resource available to everyone.

I agree, Numb .. I just don't feel he can regularly pull off the SF spot. Certain situations, sure. Just like certain situations he could off playing PF ..
 
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