I have mixed thoughts about DL. But if you’re just gonna go “well besides drafting two star players” it’s quite obvious you’re not trying to grade him with sincerity. That’s not a sidenote, those are incredible draft picks and acquiring those types of players is the most important thing you can do.
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I have mixed thoughts about DL. But if you’re just gonna go “well besides drafting two star players” it’s quite obvious you’re not trying to grade him with sincerity. That’s not a sidenote, those are incredible draft picks and acquiring those types of players is the most important thing you can do.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Yeah agree to disagree. Ace’s tool is definitely there and skills are something that can be taught so we will have to see how it works out for him. He’s definitely on the rawer side compared to college Tatum and got a long way to go. MPJ is still the best comp IMO.
fixed
So this is the last time I’m speaking on this point with you because this clearly isn’t a good faith argument. We’re not having a conversation, you’re talking past me arguing against a larger point that I did not making while constantly showing my actual point that people dismiss Don and Rudy like it’s nothing.
You hold onto this 12/15 fun fact like it means so much. Let me tell you, it doesn’t. No situation is the same and being so blindly results based is actually the exact opposite of how you should judge things. There is no value in being willfully ignorant to the difference in situations. It is not my fault if you choose to be a simpleton and put so much stock in arbitrarily drawing this hard line. Not only is it a bad way to judge a GM as a whole because of the different situational factors, I’m not actually talking about DL’s entire GM record. I’m talking about how much people downplay Don and Rudy which you can’t help yourself from doing.
There is so much that goes into building a team. Much of is situational/luck and that has nothing to do with the GM. And for the stuff that does happen to do with the GM, it doesn’t have much to do with Don and Rudy. I will repeat this for the last time, I am not arguing for DL being an amazing GM. So stop trying to argue against him being bad as a whole, you’re not making a point there. I am talking about Don and Rudy. The failures outside of the draft do not make Don and Rudy worse picks. When talking about a draft record, the stuff besides drafting is irrelevant. Every time you say he made horrible moves outside down and Rudy, you are making my point. We can list out all the dumb moves that I’m sure you’re aware of….but the only way you can help your argument of downplaying Don and Rudy is to mention good moves. You would have to convince me that the success we did have wasn’t attributed to them but other factors. The fact that you keep arguing for my point shows you really just want to whine and complain about DL and are not here to discuss anything with me.
Now to actually talk about his draft record, you’re absolutely right that these other small draft picks matter. But if drafting Grayson Allen is a disaster….how significant is drafting Gobert at 27? The significance of those decisions are not at all the same, and yet we always choose to make a big deal about someone like Allen and try to completely downplay Don and Rudy. It’s not like we didn’t have success because those guys weren’t good enough draft picks. You make it seem as though those guys are incapable of going to higher heights, and that just isn’t true at all. DL fell extremely short in a lot of areas outside of the draft and Quin was too stubborn of a coach to change. Those things were major causes in our inability to make the finals but have nothing to do with Don and Rudy and the value of making those picks. There was a long list of things that prevented us from going further. Don and Rudy not being good enough is not on it.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Yeah you talking apples while I'm taking about oranges. DM and Rudy were great picks. I'm not denying that at all. But everything DL did outside of drafting these two were meh. And overall his mistakes outweigh his achievements, just like Nico Harrison for the mavs. While he's responsible for us getting DM/Rudy, he's equally responsible for losing them. End of story.
Park Bites
Well-Known Member
I pledge allegiance to the Flagg of the Utah Jazz, and to the fanz for which he stands, one Nation under basketball, indivisible, with dunks and threes for all,"
I do think Ace is being a little shortchanged for his actual shot creation ability. Of course he will have to adjust to the NBA....but he is legitimately one of the best shotmaking prospects I can remember. It's not a GG situation where he shoots a lot but converts at a horrid rate. Ace doesn't shoot efficient shots, but he converts on them at a fairly high rate.
Shotmaking is the hardest way to make a living in the NBA, most players cannot do that. It's why I have some concerns with Tre as well....but it is a premium skill and when we talk about potential these guys have it. I think I believe in Tre's feel/offensive package more, but Ace also has good potential on defense.
TBH, I still think Kas might have a better chance than both to be an offensive star.
Shotmaking is the hardest way to make a living in the NBA, most players cannot do that. It's why I have some concerns with Tre as well....but it is a premium skill and when we talk about potential these guys have it. I think I believe in Tre's feel/offensive package more, but Ace also has good potential on defense.
TBH, I still think Kas might have a better chance than both to be an offensive star.
Yeah, I think we're in the "nitpicking" phase of evaluating Bailey as a prospect. Missing the forest through the trees, so to speak.
My only real gripe on his game is that it generally lacks some refinement across the board, vs. someone like Durant or Tatum in their freshman season. That said, he's still very productive (on reasonable efficiency) and young for his basketball grade, a la KD or Flagg. I'd compare him favorably to someone like Brandon Miller in recent years. If nothing else I think he's wired better mentally.
Hard to imagine he's not a 25ppg guy in the NBA pretty quickly. Maybe not a "true #1" on a title contender if we want to think in those terms but a key piece at minimum. Him and Lauri on the wings together with a playmaking backcourt would be a really tough cover.
I think it's pretty easy to imagine him not being a 25 ppg quickly because there's simply not many of those guys. Ace is the most theoretical out of the top 6 IMO, and he's definitely not the type of prospect I'm drawn to. But he does have a lot of tools/attributes. Sometimes you have to shoot for the stars and bet on heavy development. His general feel and bbiq are pretty awful which is the big red flag for me, but his raw talent is as good as anyone.
I'm going to disagree on this point. They're unrefined, clearly. But I see his attacking nature more as a reflection of 1) his confidence as a scorer and 2) the dude is fiery and goes really, really hard. I'd rather a prospect like that you have to rein in, teach, etc. than someone who is just naturally more passive.
But I'm more bullish on him than most. I recognize my bias here.
Murray Boyles season officially done
Just watching random conference tourney games today.
Nick Martinelli is an extremely interesting player. Turn on the Northwestern game 2nd half and watch. The dude is a funny scorer. Probably has zero NBA shot, but I could see him being a great European player. He jumps on his FT's, which I honestly thought was illegal to do.
Nick Martinelli is an extremely interesting player. Turn on the Northwestern game 2nd half and watch. The dude is a funny scorer. Probably has zero NBA shot, but I could see him being a great European player. He jumps on his FT's, which I honestly thought was illegal to do.