Following Potential Draftees - 2019 (not kidding)

[LoPo]

A 32 year old Chris Paul was added to the Houston Rockets and helped lead them to the best record in the NBA and a 3-2 conference finals lead over one of the greatest teams of all time. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he very well could have led his team to the title.

I don't understand these "he will not get us a title" arguments. If that's the standard, we have to sign KD or Kahwi. Nobody else comes close to getting us a title. We talk of Jeremy Lamb, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Mirotic, Beverley, Justice Winslow, Dinwiddie and D'Lo. They could make us better, but none of those will get us a title. They will also cost us flexibility and tie up cap space. Any added player will do that. But somehow Conley is the worst decision of all. Even though none of these players is a better player than Conley at this point in time.

A 32 year old Chris Paul was added to the Houston Rockets and helped lead them to the best record in the NBA and a 3-2 conference finals lead over one of the greatest teams of all time. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he very well could have led his team to the title.

I don't understand these "he will not get us a title" arguments. If that's the standard, we have to sign KD or Kahwi. Nobody else comes close to getting us a title. We talk of Jeremy Lamb, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Mirotic, Beverley, Justice Winslow, Dinwiddie and D'Lo. They could make us better, but none of those will get us a title. They will also cost us flexibility and tie up cap space. Any added player will do that. But somehow Conley is the worst decision of all. Even though none of these players is a better player than Conley at this point in time.

Paying 32+ year old Chris Paul is going to be the anchor for Houston's title chances. They are already trying to dump him.

Houston added Paul to James Harden who was/is clearly in his prime. No offense to Donovan, but he isn't there yet. Comparing adding Paul to adding Conley is a good try, but the entire situations are apples and oranges. And it still didn't work for Houston and will hurt them badly over the long haul.

Cy said a high level PG will help you to a title. My stance is that draft picks and hopefully a mid tier free agent with progression potential gets us closer to title contention.

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[Udidthizz]

This is soooooo stupid, this is in fact a panicked take... Posts like these and this thought process, are essentially why the Jazz are in the quagmire their in.


This is why you build thru the draft.... Not trade picks for vets.... This is the dumb **** that follows.... This is as dumb as when Layden ran the Knicks, or not that dumb, but close, which speaks volumes, cuz that guy did a horrible job.


Before u get defensive, Ill smash this argument to pieces and use it to reinforce what I've been saying all along... you've been warned.



Best part is u gotta say some dumb **** and then attempt to drag someone like D'Angelo Russell down in the process.


If Utah can't win a title with D'Angelo Russell, then what are you waiting for? the shows over bruh if thats the case. Might as well just pack it up and reconvene in the 2030's....

If Utah can't win with D'Angelo Russell ---- the move is clear, it's time to shop Rudy and Mitchell and start from scratch with as many 1st rd picks as they can find.

I'm not sure you quite got my point. I only responded to the argument that adding Conley will not lead to winning a title. I find it odd that that would be the argument against Conley, but not against any of the other potential additions. And I'm not dragging D'Angelo Russell down. I would love to sign him. But if the only standard is that we should only invest in players that will bring a championship, then signing D'Lo is no better or worse than trading for Conley. The current team without Rubio and Favors but with D'Lo is not going to win a championship without further additions.

 

[Udidthizz]

Paying 32+ year old Chris Paul is going to be the anchor for Houston's title chances. They are already trying to dump him.

Houston added Paul to James Harden who was/is clearly in his prime. No offense to Donovan, but he isn't there yet. Comparing adding Paul to adding Conley is a good try, but the entire situations are apples and oranges. And it still didn't work for Houston and will hurt them badly over the long haul.

Cy said a high level PG will help you to a title. My stance is that draft picks and hopefully a mid tier free agent with progression potential gets us closer to title contention.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

You're changing the goal posts. All you asked for was an example of adding a 32 year old point guard that led to a championship. The case of Paul comes close. Of course I have no example of adding a 32 year old point guard to a team that is exactly the same as the Jazz is now which led to a championship. Every team is different. If I had mentioned any other team, you could have said "but they have player X and Donovan is not player X".

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You're changing the goal posts. All you asked for was an example of adding a 32 year old point guard that led to a championship. The case of Paul comes close. Of course I have no example of adding a 32 year old point guard to a team that is exactly the same as the Jazz is now which led to a championship. Every team is different. If I had mentioned any other team, you could have said "but they have player X and Donovan is not player X".

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

Lopo moving the goal post is like water being wet

 

[Game6Conley]

I'm not sure you quite got my point. I only responded to the argument that adding Conley will not lead to winning a title. I find it odd that that would be the argument against Conley, but not against any of the other potential additions. And I'm not dragging D'Angelo Russell down. I would love to sign him. But if the only standard is that we should only invest in players that will bring a championship, then signing D'Lo is no better or worse than trading for Conley. The current team without Rubio and Favors but with D'Lo is not going to win a championship without further additions.

PPL mostly look at things like dumb consumers, their ****ing bourgeoisie thru and thru, and this is no different.

You dont "buy titles" when they say that about the Yankees, it's not like going to ****ing macy's..... Those comments are just pandering to an audience that wants to hear that said, so they can agree and have seeds of revenge planted in their heads...

It's not actually reality, ask any player on the team who's won a chip if the championship was bought and ur in for a treat... It takes blood sweat and tears just like anything else worth hunting down...

titles are about growth, and survival.. The professionals involved make it possible for the growth to happen rapidly, and for survival chances to increase drastically. A concept Utah's FO obviously struggles with for, the entire life of the franchise, they are perpetually a good team thats afraid to take a big leap to greatness, they prefer to be decent and then take babysteps, they concede the chance at greatness, to maintain being slightly above average(in a field of 30....) and sell tons of tickets and some facade about "the Jazz way" while reaping the financial rewards of a regional monopoly...


Can the Jazz really lose? I say no... Just like Jim Dolan can't lose... The ppl showing up losing their $$$ to watch this stuff, they're the clear losers.. Honestly I'd rather lose a bet on a game than pay to go see a game, cuz i'll watch it anyways from home, and on a losing bet, at least i gain feedback/actionable info, ya know --- learn a lesson...

When I go to games, or boxing matches, the lesson i usually learn is no one sitting near me in any sort of proximity, usually has a clue about whats going on, and it's all a big voyeurism type of deal..

 

[Udidthizz]

PPL mostly look at things like dumb consumers, their ****ing bourgeoisie thru and thru, and this is no different.

You dont "buy titles" when they say that about the Yankees, it's not like going to ****ing macy's..... Those comments are just pandering to an audience that wants to hear that said, so they can agree and have seeds of revenge planted in their heads...

It's not actually reality, ask any player on the team who's won a chip if the championship was bought and ur in for a treat... It takes blood sweat and tears just like anything else worth hunting down...

titles are about growth, and survival.. The professionals involved make it possible for the growth to happen rapidly, and for survival chances to increase drastically. A concept Utah's FO obviously struggles with for, the entire life of the franchise, they are perpetually a good team thats afraid to take a big leap to greatness, they prefer to be decent and then take babysteps, they concede the chance at greatness, to maintain being slightly above average(in a field of 30....) and sell tons of tickets and some facade about "the Jazz way" while reaping the financial rewards of a regional monopoly...


Can the Jazz really lose? I say no... Just like Jim Dolan can't lose... The ppl showing up losing their $$$ to watch this stuff, they're the clear losers.. Honestly I'd rather lose a bet on a game than pay to go see a game, cuz i'll watch it anyways from home, and on a losing bet, at least i gain feedback..

Completely agree. Yet here we all are, hoping yet again that this summer will be different and the FO will finally take a leap.

 

[Miggs]

Can the Jazz really lose? I say no... Just like Jim Dolan can't lose... The ppl showing up losing their $$$ to watch this stuff, they're the clear losers.. Honestly I'd rather lose a bet on a game than pay to go see a game, cuz i'll watch it anyways from home, and on a losing bet, at least i gain feedback/actionable info, ya know --- learn a lesson...

When I go to games, or boxing matches, the lesson i usually learn is no one sitting near me in any sort of proximity, usually has a clue about whats going on, and it's all a big voyeurism type of deal..

You admittedly go to games and matches so I guess you’re a clear loser, right?

 

[LoPo]

You're changing the goal posts. All you asked for was an example of adding a 32 year old point guard that led to a championship. The case of Paul comes close. Of course I have no example of adding a 32 year old point guard to a team that is exactly the same as the Jazz is now which led to a championship. Every team is different. If I had mentioned any other team, you could have said "but they have player X and Donovan is not player X".

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

Chris Paul didn't lead Houston to a championship. He didn't even lead them to the finals. So I didn't move the goal posts at all.

If anything, the Paul example works even more in my favor. He made Houston marginally better but now his age and contract will completely destroy their window to try to contend.

You know who makes Utah marginally better but wrecks any chance of improvement and outside growth? You got it, Mike Conley.

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[LoPo]

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

I have agreed that Conley makes us slightly better. I just don't think the improvement is worth the sacrifices. Conley would have been worth the gamble at the deadline. Now, it's just a bad move.

We need younger players or draft picks. We need players for Donovan's timeline (the next decade) more than Rudy's timeline (the next few years).

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[SCS]

Chris Paul didn't lead Houston to a championship. He didn't even lead them to the finals. So I didn't move the goal posts at all.

If anything, the Paul example works even more in my favor. He made Houston marginally better but now his age and contract will completely destroy their window to try to contend.

You know who makes Utah marginally better but wrecks any chance of improvement and outside growth? You got it, Mike Conley.

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Except he doesn't because his contract expires in two years and we'd have enough financial flexibility if we're careful to pivot our roster in a different direction. Unlike the Rockets situation.

 

[Udidthizz]

Chris Paul didn't lead Houston to a championship. He didn't even lead them to the finals. So I didn't move the goal posts at all.

If anything, the Paul example works even more in my favor. He made Houston marginally better but now his age and contract will completely destroy their window to try to contend.

You know who makes Utah marginally better but wrecks any chance of improvement and outside growth? You got it, Mike Conley.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

The Rockets swung for the fences with Paul and it might well have worked out. Made their best run since 1995. They gave themselves a chance to make it happen. The Jazz traditionally go for stability, growth, internal development etc. Perhaps they honestly believe that or perhaps it's an excuse for avoiding risk. I'm not saying the Jazz have to get Conley, but if they want to get somewhere at some point they have to take a risk. Do they want to make a serious run or are they content with a playoff berth?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Rockets swung for the fences with Paul and it might well have worked out. Made their best run since 1995. They gave themselves a chance to make it happen. The Jazz traditionally go for stability, growth, internal development etc. Perhaps they honestly believe that or perhaps it's an excuse for avoiding risk. I'm not saying the Jazz have to get Conley, but if they want to get somewhere at some point they have to take a risk. Do they want to make a serious run or are they content with a playoff berth?

Getting Conley for a first is a home run... was at the deadline and still is now. He might not stay healthy but if he does it’s a huge win.

I laugh when anytime the argument against a player is purely just his age. Look at what the guy is doing... age is one factor and if there are no signs of decline and the guys is on a two year deal then I’m not super concerned about age.