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For those of you doubting Gordon Hayward...

Cyrone Torbin said:
The only question I have about Hayward's shooting is he can become a better shooter off the dribble, don't have the numbers or anything, but I would assume he is at best an average shooter off the bounce.
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That might be tough for him because he has one of the slowest releases in the league. He is like an old medieval war machine that needs setup time to be be loaded and fired. In fact when Hayward was rushed or contested even a little on his set shots, he usually missed.
 
b_line said:
There are two areas where George clearly is better than Hayward.

George rebounds better.
George is blacker than Hayward. If Hayward was black do you think we would be calling him "surprisingly" athletic? He is either athletic or not. Just choose one. He can be athletic and white. It is not mutually exclusive.

Paul George might play better defense than Hayward. But Hayward plays pretty darn good D and he is on a terrible defensive team.
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He was on
 
AKMVP said:
Hayward played almost 30 min a game two seasons in a row - not much difference from George. Kanter, Burks, Favors are different story - they played way less minutes then Hayward, you can't use them as example.
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You can't argue per game is the end all be all and then discount 3 players your argument does not work for. Either it is the best way to look at the stat or it is not. Simply put Gordon is every bit as good at passing as George for each minute they are on the floor. He gets about the same # of assists per minute on the floor despite lower usage(your stat)
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I'm not even trying to say I'd take Hayward over George right now. Because I probably wouldn't. But your insistence that he is simply better is every bit as biased as the rest of the fans here. Your whole argument about the passing is you trying to skew the stats to show something you have already decided is the truth. But it's not as simple as you are trying to say. I'll give you George is a better leader and rebounder than Gordon (right now). But all of the other stats are either so close not to matter or favor Hayward. Take Al out of Gordon's stats and they are even more clearly in Hayward's favor. Which is a good sign for this year.
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And I know you don't buy into per 36 stats. Well I'll say that they are a far better indicator than per game, because per game the biggest impact on the stats is determined by how many minutes you play.
 
I like Hayward more and I don't like George at all.

But, George>Hayward, imo.
 
Just made this gif. I hate the offseason. I love Hayward.

tbu.gif
 
Hayward is SO bad he was arguably the best shooter at the US national team camp this summer. Better trade him now; the guy is a BUST!
 
Player A:
Shooting percentages (2 pt/3pt) of:
2010-11: 45%/30%
2011-12: 44%/39%
2012-13: 42%/36%

Player B:
Shooting percentages (2 pt/3pt) of:
2010-11: 49%/47%
2011-12: 46%/35%
2012-13: 44%/42%

Obviously, Player B is far superior. In only one statistic (3-pt FG% in 2011-12) did Player A outperform Player B. In the other five measuerments, Player A was better from 2%-17%!

Have to admit AKMVP, there is clear evidence. Congrats!
 
Core4 said:
Player A:
Shooting percentages (2 pt/3pt) of:
2010-11: 45%/30%
2011-12: 44%/39%
2012-13: 42%/36%

Player B:
Shooting percentages (2 pt/3pt) of:
2010-11: 49%/47%
2011-12: 46%/35%
2012-13: 44%/42%

Obviously, Player B is far superior. In only one statistic (3-pt FG% in 2011-12) did Player A outperform Player B. In the other five measuerments, Player A was better from 2%-17%!

Have to admit AKMVP, there is clear evidence. Congrats!
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Have I ever argued that Hayward is better shooter? My main argument was that people where trying to sell Hayward as better passer and that is simply not true. Even if you look at per 36min stats, usage rate, offensive system differences, etc - they are at least equal passers. And it is not given that extra 7 minutes Hayward would get will help him to get 1.1 assist more. George by the way averaged over 5 ast during last playoffs. How did Hayward performed during playoffs?
 
AKMVP said:
Have I ever argued that Hayward is better shooter? My main argument was that people where trying to sell Hayward as better passer and that is simply not true. Even if you look at per 36min stats, usage rate, offensive system differences, etc - they are at least equal passers. And it is not given that extra 7 minutes Hayward would get will help him to get 1.1 assist more. George by the way averaged over 5 ast during last playoffs. How did Hayward performed during playoffs?
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So you are admitting that you were wrong when you said George was clearly the better passer? Also, Hayward would have to get 8-9 more minutes per game to average the same as George, so he would likely get the 1.1 assists needed to match him. How does crow taste?
 
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